41:6 Beating writer’s block

Lee:
Welcome to The Agency Trailblazer Podcast, this is your host, Lee. And on today’s show, I’m honoured to have the chief scientist of The Content Lab, none other than Abby Wood. Abby, how are you?

Abby:
Hello. I’m doing really well, Lee. Thank you so much for having me today.

Lee:
I am honoured to have you. Nicole Osborne highly recommended we connect. I’ve already checked out your scientific website and absolutely love it. If people think I’ve gone barking mad, your company is called The Content Lab and you’re not about science, what’s your real job title?

Abby:
My real title is content strategist. The Content Lab, we make beautiful things, and just beautiful words, and The Content Lab sounded like a great name, and I was just like, “Yeah.” Full disclosure, when we were rebranding I was thinking of dressing up in the white lab coats and stuff.

Lee:
Oh yeah.

Abby:
But alas, thank you COVID, it did not happen.

Lee:
Well, I suppose it would be kind of not cool because of COVID. People might think you were a doctor or something.

Abby:
Oh God yeah, no I didn’t even think about that. Awkward.

Lee:
No worries. Folks, you can check out Abby’s website over on thecontentlab.ie. Let me know in the comments, on the website, how fabulous you think the glasses on the logo are. So you, Abby, are the, I guess, founder, CEO, chief scientist of a agency that focuses primarily on content. You have a team around you, and I’d really love, first, to jump in a time machine, before all of that happened, and just get a little background into Abby’s world and how Abby got into content. Would you take us there?

Abby:
Sure thing. So yeah, God, I started… Well, first of all, I live in County Waterford in Ireland. I’m originally from Cambridge, even though my accent is all over the place now. I usually get asked if I’m Australian, because it’s that bad. It doesn’t sound English at all. But yeah, so I stereotypically fell in love with an Irishman and decided to up roots and move here. It is absolutely stunningly beautiful, very laid back, very nice place to live. I moved straight in the middle of recession so there was no work at all. He lost his job, my partner, Nick, he lost his job, and we said, “Oh no, what are we going to do?” And we said, “Well, I can write”, he is a fantastic web designer and web builder and stuff, and we set up Ireland Website Design together.

Abby:
That agency has been going, God, about 10 years now. I always ran the content department of it. I didn’t have any official training or anything like that. I have a bachelor of arts and all this kind of thing, but other than that, no background in writing for the web at all. I ran the content department for a few years, and obviously, as you know, you get to know other agency owners, and chat and stuff. A few friends kept asking me, “Oh, will you write the content for our website? Can you help me with this blog for one of my clients?” And I was like, “Hello, there’s a business here.”

Abby:
About three years ago we separated the two businesses, so The Content Lab was born. And yeah, it was originally just me, and helping other digital agency owners. We’re kind of like a white label service, we do content strategy, copywriting, content marketing. Basically, if it’s the written word, we’ll do it. And yeah, we just help digital agencies across the world, really, with their own content and their client’s content. Now I’m incredibly lucky to have two wonderful writers that work with me, Riley and Ciara, and yeah, really happy with how it’s going so far.

Lee:
Well, I feel like, before we continue about content, we should just take a moment to appreciate how incredibly SEO-tastic your original company is called here. I’m looking at irelandwebsitedesign.com.

Abby:
Let me tell you, that man-

Lee:
That’s the holy grail, surely?

Abby:
Yeah. Nick Butler is a genius. He registered that domain name about 20 years ago, I kid you not.

Lee:
No way.

Abby:
Yeah. He was just like, “I’ll probably end up doing something with it.” I was just like, “That is frigging genius, okay. Genius.” It’s amazing. He’s talked about rebranding and stuff, to something… Because he’s very e-commerce focused now. Something a little bit more relevant. I’m just like, “It’s a great name, though, for SEO.”

Lee:
It is a great name. Am I right in saying that was the agency that you split from? Or is this a separate agency? Ireland Web-

Abby:
Yeah, no that’s-

Lee:
That’s the one.

Abby:
Yeah.

Lee:
I thought so because I saw you on the meet the team page, but I didn’t want to assume.

Abby:
Yeah. Ireland Website Design are one of our clients. Working with a spouse is something different, it’s not for everyone, but it’s fun.

Lee:
It is fun. And I totally appreciate that’s the best domain anyone could ever buy. Folks, for everything that we mention, don’t forget, we always put links in the show notes so you can go ahead and check those out. That’s thecontentlab.ie, and also, of course, Ireland Website Design, if you are an SEO freak and you just love how good that domain is.

Lee:
All right. So far we’ve learned that you have the strangest accent on the planet, that’s fantastic, and that everybody picked on you to write their stuff. You’ve had an amazing business with your spouse, you’ve then realised that, as people keep asking you for more and more content, that there is a business in this, and you’ve developed a business. Did you call it The Content Lab straight away? How did you go about it? Were you freelancing at first? This is a very loaded question, this, and at what point did you realise you needed to split the two companies out?

Abby:
I stayed a part of Ireland Website Design for about six months, just while I was getting a few white label clients for myself, just so that I knew I had a good base to start the business with. And yeah, split it, I decided to just split it like the 1st of January for that year, and was just like, “Okay, we’re going to do this. We’re going to go all or nothing.” And that was it, it’s been my own little baby since then. So yeah, that was pretty much it. I was incredibly lucky to have that base of Ireland Website Design before splitting off, for sure. Yeah, that’s pretty much it.

Lee:
No, that’s good. I mean, a lot of people would describe a scary journey, et cetera, but what you’ve done is super practical, and I think a lot of us could learn from that. Is just by saying, “Hey, it’s the 1st of January next month, so that’s going to be the cutoff date. Let’s go for it.” A lot of us, including myself, might actually dilly-dally and wait for certain signs. Like if God makes the sun turn purple at a certain time in the afternoon, that will be the time where I will finally take the plunge.

Abby:
Yeah, yeah. Do you know what? I’m terrible. I’m very much one of these people that are just like, “Do it and just make it work.” I’ll just be like, “Okay, that’s it. I’ve made the decision. We’re going to do it and we’re going to run with it.” Obviously, do your research first, but once that’s it and it’s viable, I’m just like, “Okay, we’re not going to wait for anything, we’re just going to do it.”

Lee:
There’s my biggest takeaway already, go ahead and do it, with the disclaimer of do your research first. I like it. Now, you are focused here on content. I can imagine creating the copy for The Content Lab must have been an exercise in self-awareness, because you are about to create a website, telling people you know how to create content. Are you, therefore, flipping in your mind, thinking, “Well, this needs to be really good copy and content”?

Abby:
Yeah, do you know what? I thoroughly-

Lee:
I overthink things.

Abby:
I thoroughly enjoyed writing it. Obviously, we all know keywords are important and stuff, but for me, I’m all about the quality of online content. So I wanted it to represent who we are as a company, and attract the best fit clients for us. So if somebody reads it, they’re like, “Wow, these guys sound great.” Fantastic. If they read it and they’re just like, “Oh my God, she’s put her dog on the About page, what is wrong with her?” They’re probably not going to be a good fit for us. So yeah, I think it’s going to be under scrutiny, but I thoroughly enjoyed writing it, it was good fun.

Lee:
Well, there’s another takeaway. I feel like there’s going to be a whole load of takeaways from this episode. But there is another one, be yourself and attract the people that you would love to work with. I absolutely want Bosco to write the copy for my next website. Unfortunately though, their job is to keep the office in order, keep the staff working hard and keep morale up.

Abby:
Yes, that is his full job and he’s very good at it. He’s very demanding. He’s a Border Collie, so he’s very devoted to work, he never clocks off.

Lee:
Aw, bless.

Abby:
Yeah, like at two AM you wake up and he’s like, “Hey, do you want to play fetch? [crosstalk 00:08:50]”

Lee:
I’m pretty sure there’s rules about that. Has he signed the relevant EU directives, et cetera?

Abby:
I’m going to get sued for overworking him.

Lee:
That’s phenomenal. Obviously, joking apart though, I mean, the reason why I asked that question really was to set the scene for a lot of designers out there. We’ve got a huge audience of agency owners, freelancers, et cetera, and we all get to that point where we recognise we need to write the copy for our own website. We want to be able to sell ourselves, our services and attract the right people. I, myself, am going through a big rebrand for this podcast. I’m not going to tell you what it is though, I’m just seeding that out there so people know that something’s big happening over the next few months. But I have already sat in front of an empty notepad on several occasions, trying to work out what to write for the about page, or an introduction, or for a slogan.

Lee:
That is the dreaded writer’s block for me. It’s because, again, I’m overthinking it, and I feel like I have to write the perfect copy straight away. So do you have any initial advice for somebody who’s looking at that about page, or starting to write their website copy, and they’re just staring at that blank page?

Abby:
100%. We all know that copy is one of the biggest blocks in any website project, because either… It takes so long to do. If it’s not your bread and butter and that’s what you do day in, day out, it takes so long to do, to get in the right mindset, then you’ve got to keep in mind who you’re writing for and all this kind of thing. I think my recommendation for any digital agency owner is, I always say this to anyone, is one, the website isn’t actually about you, it’s about who you’re trying to attract. So although you are talking about yourself, about your services, frame it from your reader’s point of view. So, what are their problems? What are they looking to solve? Set yourself up as the solution to their problems.

Abby:
But don’t just focus on the features of your service, always go into those deeper benefits. I’m going to toot my own horn here. If you go onto our website, it’s get your time back, it’s save time, get your projects back on track, make more money, all of this kind of thing. Just focus on that as your main pitch, if it were, on the homepage.

Abby:
About pages are often overlooked, and they’re so insanely important to attracting the best fit clients for you. Although the homepage is very much about the end user, and what they’re looking for, and then setting it up so that you’re pitching yourself as the ultimate solution, the about page, definitely go all out with it. Feel comfortable talking about why you do what you do, why you actually give a damn about what you do. And I think don’t be afraid to niche down and focus on your ideal client, so the person that you actually want to attract. Just really figure out exactly what they’re looking for and just speak to that, I think.

Abby:
And if you’re faced with a blank page, just get something on the page. Doesn’t matter what it is, even if it’s random notes, and then always edit. The best professional writers, you never submit a first draught, you always go in and edit. So don’t be afraid to just rip it apart the second time.

Lee:
That’s a real good point. What I do often, when I’m writing a blog post, is I’ll record myself talking the answers of the problems I’m apparently about to write in the blog post. Then I’ll get that transcribed and then heavily edit that sometimes, if I get blocked, because my words are a complete mess, but I end up getting out the things I want to say, then I can rewrite it in something that makes sense.

Lee:
But I want to pick on everything you’ve just said and double-check you’ve done it on thecontentlab.ie. Now, you, first of all, said that… Don’t worry, you have already, I checked. But spoiler alert, I just wanted to put you under temporary pressure.

Abby:
Thank God.

Lee:
But first of all, you do, you set up with, “Speed up projects, make more money, get your time back.” So what Abby’s doing here is she is appealing to us, the busy agency owner, and yes, I want to speed up my projects, I want my websites to finish quickly, I want to make more money, I want another service, or I want to have a project finish on time, get your time back. So instantly knowing the target audience, and knowing the target audience problems, Abby has hit them out of the park with that nice one-liner at the bottom, “Reliable content writing services for digital agencies and their clients.” So I now know, without scrolling, what it is you do, Abby, who it is you work with, I know that’s me, I’m a digital agency, and I know some of the benefits I’m going to get. And there’s two call to actions, both of them saying, “Let’s talk content”, which is phenomenal.

Lee:
But then you then continue to deep dive into some of those problems. So you say things like, “Are your clients not providing content on time? Are you wasting hours of your own precious time trying to write it for them?” So on and so forth. So again, you’re just hitting in on those key problems that people have. Then you’re saying, “Hey, we can do it for you.” Another call to action.

Lee:
You’ve also added in some social proof there, The Digital Agency Show, Teamwork, The Admin Bar, and soon, Agency Trailblazer Podcast, I’m sure.

Abby:
Oh, you know it.

Lee:
Awesome. And then, obviously, you continue to deep dive. With regards to the about page as well, you talked about your why, and I was actually going to go, “Oh no, you don’t.” But yeah, you do, because it’s a video, it wasn’t copy. I was like, “Oh, I don’t see no copy about why.” Then I realised you actually have your video there, with your own face on it, ready to tell people why you do what you do, which is phenomenal.

Lee:
That’s actually a quite a good reminder that you don’t always have to write. You can have some sort of interactive content. People do want to see you, they want to see people, they want to know who they’re working with. Especially the dog, I believe, on the homepage. So folks, again, check out contentlab.ie for some fantastic advice there.

Lee:
So you’re talking now about white labelling content for agencies, and in my head I’m thinking, “How on earth do you manage to create content for companies in so many diverse areas?” I mean, if I imagine I encourage people to write about what they know, how do you guys actually do that? Because I assume you might be writing for a funeral director one week and then writing for a painter and decorator the other. I’m not sure. I mean, give us a little bit of insight, how do you do it?

Abby:
Yeah. So it’s kind of a unique skillset that definitely has to develop over time, for sure. It’s all very much in the discovery process. You go to the end client and you gather all that lovely information, insider info that they have, and then you basically turn it into copy for the web, or blog posts or whatever. But it’s very much, like you say, it’s not even week by week, it’s day by day. For instance, we could be rebranding a small town in Canada, in Alberta, and then in the afternoon you could be doing a project of how to unblock a toilet.

Lee:
Wow.

Abby:
It’s just completely… Yeah. It’s fun. I think good copywriters generally love to learn new things. And that’s part of it, we fully go into the nitty-gritty details and we bring out the biggest selling points for, whether it’s car maintenance, or whether it’s… I’m just trying to think of another example and my mind’s gone blank, course it has. But you know what I mean?

Lee:
I know [crosstalk 00:16:42].

Abby:
It’s pretty much just getting whatever the biggest selling points are for their end clients. So there’s a little bit of psychology in it, it’s understanding… I always say content is, it boils down to people. It’s understanding what people want. Although you could literally be writing about a public health department in Colorado, you can understand the people that are looking for help from that service, and you can speak to what they’re looking for, and what they need, and what they’re going through, exactly the same as you can get in the mind space of somebody that’s looking to upgrade their car. It’s all about understanding the people behind the purchases, we’ll say. And yeah, I think any good copywriter, a bit of research, and of course, interviewing the end client, and that’s why the discovery process is so important, to just really thoroughly understand the people behind the website. I think that’s probably one of the most important parts of writing for so many different niches.

Lee:
I love that. My next biggest takeaway is understanding the people behind the purchase. Of course, it’s great to understand our own identity as a business owner, but it’s so much more important, I think, when writing the copy, understanding who it is that’s reading the content and what it is they need to be doing with it. Like your example of a local government website, that’s clearly going to be a different type of reader, with a different set of end actions in mind, which is absolutely key.

Lee:
Very often I get emails explaining the benefits of copy and of SEO. We get a lot of companies offering me SEO optimised content. Where do you stand in that? Because if we have to put ourselves in the mind of the people behind the purchase, how do we also balance the algorithm of Google? Or even should we?

Abby:
That is quite the question. It’s a very, very fine line. In my personal perspective, and this is just how we write and how we all approach it, with Google moving away from this keyword focus to more user intent, I think that this almost obsession with keywords, and putting keywords in and stuff, I think that’s going to slowly become less of a selling point for many SEO writers. But also, I think if you’re writing about something, about a subject, and you’re covering it in depth, and you’re addressing what people are looking for, you will naturally hit certain keywords anyway, because that is the stuff that they’re going to be looking for.

Abby:
So when you are writing something from the perspective of being the authority in what you’re writing about, yes, keywords, important. Yes, we all know that they need to be in certain places and all this kind of stuff, But I think… This is always a really difficult one. Yes, keywords are important, yes, SEO, obviously, is insanely important to what we do, but it’s also important to remember that there’s somebody reading this.

Abby:
So with semantic SEO, and user intent, and all the latest Google algorithms and stuff, if you write something that, yeah, it ranks really high up on Google because you banged a bunch of keywords in there, if it’s so brutal to read that somebody clicks on it and instantly clicks away, you’re going to get penalised by Google. They’re going to be like, “Wow, this is either terrible or just completely irrelevant, so we’re not going to promote it to the same standard anymore.” So I think, yes, pop some keywords in there, do best practise, but also just remember that when somebody actually clicks on their Google result, that they need to get the information that they’re looking for, and they need to be engaged, they need to be entertained, they need to get what they’re looking for from the piece. So, yeah.

Lee:
And Google will know, because you have your bounce rate on your website on the page, time on page, et cetera.

Abby:
Exactly.

Lee:
Google know everything, which is phenomenally scary, but equally, “Hey, they know, so we need to work on that.” I’ve seen some awfully worded articles as well, in the past, which, let’s just say I went to your website and you wanted to rank for content, you’d be like, “Hello. We write content and our content is amazing content. The content that you really need on your website. Are you neglecting the content on your website? We won’t neglect your content.” Do you know what I mean?

Abby:
Yeah.

Lee:
It’s that bad and you’re like, “Oh my gosh, please no.”

Abby:
Yeah. And I don’t think that it presents the company in a good light.

Lee:
No.

Abby:
Because it very much shows your approach to your work. There’s no substance to that, if you know what I mean, it’s just like you’re ticking a box, but you’re not actually delivering anything that’s worth anything.

Lee:
Now, I’ve heard a phrase, “Content strategy.” I know that’s a very, very big… It is a very big phrase.

Abby:
Huge.

Lee:
A huge phrase. And I hear a lot of companies, and I’ve never really fully understood it, they’ve said, “We will work with you on your content strategy.” Do you mind just, not too deep a dive, but just helping identify and help me understand what they might mean when they say they’re going to help me with a content strategy? Caveat, I make a podcast once a week with absolutely no strategy and I sometimes blog.

Abby:
Yeah, of course. No worries. So content strategy is basically, a content strategy, and a content strategist, will come in, they’ll look at what you’re currently doing across all digital mediums, and then they’ll come up with a plan based on your key performance indicators and where you actually want to go, they’ll come up with a plan of where you need to post, what you need to create, what topics you need to write about, how often you need to create stuff, and put it all into a nice plan for you so that you’ve got actual measurables that you can continue on with. Once you continue on with that strategy, you should eventually end up with the results that you’re looking for. That-

Lee:
Sounds like I need that.

Abby:
Everyone needs that. That’s very high level, there’s a lot more that goes into it.

Lee:
Sure.

Abby:
In fact, if any agencies out there are interested in content strategy, or just understanding auditing websites for content, which is a huge part if you’re doing a larger scale site, I highly recommend a fabulous book called Content Strategy for the Web by Kristina Halvorson. It is basically a step-by-step guide on the entire content strategy process. So it’ll run you through how to audit something, how to create a strategy, how to revisit the strategy, how to adapt and evolve and all this kind of thing. But it’s a super fun read, she’s very entertaining, it’s very laid back language. It’s not like, “Yes, well, meta titles and meta descriptions”, and all this kind of thing. It’s very accessible, it’s easy to read, and it’s pretty much the basics of content strategy. So, highly recommend.

Lee:
And it’s only 192 pages long, which is good for me to know, because if there is ever a really long book, I know it will never get read. But thank you for that.

Abby:
It’s super short and you can dip in and out of it. Also, did you Google that while I was talking because that was very quick?

Lee:
Course I did.

Abby:
But yeah, fantastic book, fantastic book. Especially for agency owners. If you’re doing content in-house, and you’re like, “Okay, I want a process, I want to be able to actually deliver a strategy that’s going to give measurable results to my clients”, for sure, buy it, read it, drink a cup of coffee, read it. It’ll take you like a couple of hours to get through, it’s nice and simple.

Lee:
Thank you for that. I mean, I guess it sounded like a basic question, and I’ve always felt a little bit embarrassed to say-

Abby:
Not at all.

Lee:
… “What is content strategy?” I’ve always thought of it as something like, “Well, content strategy is, you know your target audience, therefore you need to write about a whole load of stuff and you need to schedule it.” But that’s not really content strategy per se. What you’ve done there is deep dived and explained, “What is it you want to achieve? What are you trying to do? Therefore, what content do you need to create?” Of course, when do you need to create it is still a valid part of that. But also, you’ve gone into the, what are the measureables, how are we going to see the success of that?

Lee:
You see, I’ve always looked at my YouTube channel, and I have a love/hate relationship with it, where I try and grow it, and I do back to back videos for weeks, but there’s never any real strategy to it, it’s mainly a, “I know people want to know about this, this, this, and this and this, because I’ve chatted with them in the past, so I’m going to make videos on it.” But there’s no real strategy behind that, other than that, which then means that I get low views and I get a little bit dejected by it. And in the end, I’m changing it from weekly, to monthly, to I haven’t done a video in like three months now, shame on me. The only reason I do the podcast is it just keeps getting downloaded, so I’m happy to keep going, I guess. Thank you everyone who’s listening, you’re all wonderful.

Abby:
We love you.

Lee:
What on earth are you doing? I’ve been going for six years, if you want me to shut up just stop downloading.

Abby:
No, but that’s it, I think it’s so easy to be like, “Oh, I should be blogging once a month. I should be doing a video once a week.” It’s like, “Yeah, that’s great. But are you getting results from it?”

Lee:
Yes.

Abby:
If you’re not getting results from it, then it’s… It’s not wasted effort, but it’s like, could you be putting your time and effort into something that is a bit more fruitful for you?

Lee:
And there’s another takeaway, is the word should. Should is a real bad word because that makes you feel crappy about yourself. I do it all the time, I’m like, “I should do another video.” Then I crappy about myself because I’ve not done it. However, I could do another video, but what I first should do is read that book, and maybe even talk to Abby about strategically creating the right content so that I’ll get better results, which means I’ll want to do more videos because I’ll get what I’m looking for. Is that right?

Abby:
Yes. And it’ll be less effort because… That’s the whole thing. I’m currently reading… I’m a big fan of Greg McKeown, and his Essentialism and Effortless books. It’s all about focusing on what is the most important things for you. Yeah, we should be doing this, we should be doing that, but life is too short. Focus your time and attention on stuff, one, that you enjoy, which is one of the reasons why I specialise in content, because that’s something that I generally enjoy, and two, what makes the biggest impact for you? Whether it’s financial, or whether it is helping other agency owners, or whether it’s helping your staff get a mortgage, or whatever it is, what little things every single day soon build up to that kind of stuff. I think that’s gone way over content strategy, what it is, but it all kind of fits in.

Lee:
It does.

Abby:
Ultimately. Because with a content strategy, you know where your brand’s going, you know your business goals, and that’s the motor to get you there. Yeah, that’s kind of it.

Lee:
Well, I’m currently looking at Greg’s website right now, and his copy is obviously very good because he’s said things like, “You’re teetering right on the edge of burnout?” Yeah. “You want to make higher contribution, but lack the energy?” Yeah.

Abby:
Yeah, yeah, that’s me.

Lee:
[crosstalk 00:28:30], I’m like, “I’m going to cry.”

Abby:
Do you know what?

Lee:
Greg knows me.

Abby:
He’s a fantastic author. It’s super easy. I love his short chapters, I’m a sucker for a book with short chapters. I know I shouldn’t say that, I’m a writer. But yeah, it’s literally just like, and I think this is a big thing for digital agency owners, and entrepreneurs in general, burnout. We should be doing this, we should be doing that. Life’s too flipping short to be should-ing all over the place, you know?

Lee:
Amen.

Abby:
So focus on what you actually want and just work on getting it.

Lee:
Amen. Preach.

Abby:
Preach.

Lee:
This is now a full church service. Can I get an Hallelujah somewhere?

Abby:
It’s terrible. Do you know what? I came on to talk about like copywriting and stuff, but instead we’re just like, “What is the meaning of life?”

Lee:
Another book, actually, I’ll recommend, seeing as we’re throwing books out there, is Deep Work by Cal Newport. That’s a really good one. Again, that’s focusing on what you want to do and putting everything else aside. I butchered what that book is about, but do go ahead and check that one out. It’s one of the reasons, in fact, I’ve cut most of my social media out, because I get so distracted, and there are things I really want to do. It’s not that I should do, or have to do, it’s stuff that I want to do, and I’ve so often got distracted.

Lee:
I think, as well, we can really bring this full circle back to content, because if you, as an agency owner, are struggling with content, and you think you should be doing the content for your client, or your client should be doing the content, then maybe you shouldn’t, and you should be connecting with the experts. Remember, you can find the experts over on thecontentlab.ie. This is not a paid promotion.

Abby:
Honey, I’m going to actually hire you to become my salesperson.

Lee:
That was pretty good, weren’t it? Did you like that?

Abby:
Chef’s kiss. Perfection.

Lee:
But obviously, you can also check out her blog as well. And yes, this isn’t paid, but Abby, we’ve had such a wonderful time with you. Before we go, how can people connect with you? And then we shall bid you adieu.

Abby:
Yes, you can get me via email, on abby@thecontentlab.ie.

Lee:
Awesome.

Abby:
That’s probably the best way to get ahold of me. It was an absolute pleasure to come and chat to you.

Lee:
Likewise. And I’m sorry for leaving you in the Zoom room for five minutes, not realising I had to hit the admit button.

Abby:
No worries. That was so funny.

Lee:
Awesome. Well, bless you and have a wonderful day, and thanks for preaching with us today.

Abby:
Thanks so much guys.

Lee:
Take care.

Abby:
Have a good day.

Lee:
Bye.