2:6 An Insight Into Content Marketing

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Lee: Hi and welcome to the WP Innovator Podcast. The WordPress Podcast for design and Web agencies. Let's make WordPress work for your business. Yes, it's episode 14 of the WP Innovator podcast. My name is Lee Jackson. Really excited to introduce this episode where we're going to talk again with Sarah Moore. So you'll remember Sarah Moore a couple of episodes ago told us how to be awesome with our social media strategy. And in this episode we're going to unpack the importance of content marketing. What is it? And some real cool, practical ways of getting started with content marketing. So before we get cracking, I'd really like to invite you to join me in a free but private Facebook group. Now, you're going to be able to find this on leejacksondev.com/group, and that's going to direct you to the WP Innovator closed group, which is for design and Web agencies. And this is going to be a safe space for you all to share information about what you're learning, to answer each other's questions and to ask questions as well. So a great group for peers to get involved all in a private space and not everything's going to be publicly available on your stream, etcetera, via Facebook going to be within the context of this private group. I'm going to be rocking out there. So are members of my team as well. So we'll be available to ask WordPress, sorry, answer WordPress questions as well as contribute in other ways as well. So really look forward to seeing you over there on leejacksondev.com/group. All right, without further ado, on with the show. Back by popular demand, the most downloaded episode with at least 3 billion downloads. We I think I lied quite a few downloads. We have the Sarah Moore back here, I would love to say in the studio with us, but actually she's in Australia. I'm over here in the United Kingdom. How are you doing, Sarah Good.

Sarah Moore: Hey, mate, I'm good. I'm well. Thanks for having me back.

Lee: That's all right. Thanks for coming. I kind of gave you no choice. I asked you on a podcast and recorded. You are like, Um. Okay. Yeah, exactly.

Sarah Moore: It's the smart way to do it.

Lee: It is. It is. So I've got a note here to ask you. No, I'm joking. I'll leave you be. But we really appreciate you coming on. So if you're not aware Sarah came on on episode eight and she talked all about social media strategy. She actually worked with us on our own social media strategy, and she's really helping us to kill it on Twitter, which is awesome. Now, we talked through a whole load of things. For example, how to select the best social media networks for yourself, etcetera. But there was a massive subject that we just didn't have time to fit in, and that's all around things like, you know, content marketing strategy, etcetera, etcetera. So we wanted Sarah to come back and then we've got a whole load of questions we want to ask her and just pick her brain. So Sarah, we really appreciate you coming on. Do you want to just give people who have not heard of Episode eight, just a quick background about who you are and what it is you do.

Sarah Moore: Sure. So I am the Sarah Moore and I have a company called Eleven Lights Media, and we run social media management and strategy for brick and mortar businesses. And basically, that's what I do. I started out a lot more broader in digital strategy, and I niche down into social. When it became apparent to me that that is actually what I really, really loved and spent most of my time thinking about and trying to execute on. So that's a little bit about my background.

Lee: And Sarah's also been in demand around the world. Where have you just been recently?

Sarah Moore: I have. I forgot about that, actually. Funny you should say that. So last month I was in San Francisco at the Summit Live, also known previously before that as Periscope Summit. Periscope Community Summit, where I had a chance to moderate one of the panels there, which was a massive honor. And I killed it, If if I may say so myself, I think I did a pretty good job behind the microphone. But no, it was great. It was so much fun. And I actually have I'm speaking on live streaming for a conference in Canada in about a week or so as well. So there you go.

Lee: So you're going over that or you're you're streaming over the Internet. So for a conference.

Sarah Moore: I'm streaming over the Internet, such as the the beauty of our modern day technology.

Lee: I know that is so cool, although nothing beats physically being there. But the idea of a big, long old plane journey for me sometimes puts me off these things. Like, you recommended that conference in Dublin, and I'm like, Can I be bothered to to travel all that way? I will, don't worry.

Sarah Moore: Good. Yeah. You booked.

Lee: Me. No, not yet. I've not booked. I've got to sort out hotels and everything anyway. Anyway, no one needs to know about that. So. So, in short, Sarah is in demand. She's being regularly asked now to to speak as well, which is really exciting. And she's also been advising us on our social media strategy and she's also been advising me as well just on how to build up better connections in the kind of the arena of speaking, etcetera. So that's been really great. So I've really appreciated her advice as well. So, Sarah, we're essentially going to pummel you with questions today, if that's all right. So I hope you've had coffee and you're all prepared because we really want to just find out some of the amazing stuff you have hidden away in that brainy, as you call.

Sarah Moore: Yeah, I'm cool. Do it. Although. No coffee. It's 930 at night.

Lee: Oh, yeah? Yeah. No coffee. Well, I've had my eight, so I'm good. All right, good. So, Sarah, you're a social media guru. If I'm allowed to call you that, name me or one of the strategies that you would use and implement as a social media consultant.

Sarah Moore: Sure. So the main strategy that I would start with, no matter who I was, what business I was in, no matter what country I was in, it doesn't really matter. The main strategy that I would begin with is content marketing strategy.

Lee: Content marketing strategy. So okay, well, I guess then what is content marketing? Why is it so important?

Sarah Moore: Yeah. So content marketing is basically anything that you create and put out online. So there, you know, if you create videos, this is content marketing. You're creating a podcast right now. A blog is content and basically anything that, um, that you create and you put out there and you don't even have to create it as well. So but we'll probably touch on that later. But basically anything that is created on the Internet is content at the end of the day.

Lee: And why do you think it's the the most important strategy for yourself?

Sarah Moore: It's the well, it's the most it used to be the most important strategy because content really used to allude to just blogging and that affected SEO and where you ranked in Google. And that's all still true today. Probably not as much as it used to be necessarily. Um, but basically content is what you put out and when you put things out, uh, that's how you get found. And when people find you, then they learn to trust you. And then once they've learned to trust you, then they will buy with you. So it's really to me, it's like the top of the, for want of a better description, it really is the top of the funnel. Um, it's a broad. It's a big broad. Opening to that funnel where you can catch a lot of people in. This is a really bad description.

Lee: No, it's good. I mean, essentially you're saying people become it's a it's the bad phrase I think I've heard many times of no, like and trust. People get to know you. They get to like you, they get to trust you. And like I said, it's the top of the funnel there. Then, you know, if they're the right person for you there, at some point they're are then going to start to buy whatever it is you're putting out there. Would. That's right. Cool. Sorry. Carry on.

Sarah Moore: That's no, that's exactly right. So basically, um, it's important because it's the start of your sales process. That's, that's the way I see it. It's the start of. It's the start of getting money into your bank.

Lee: That's really good. So, I mean, that's a good one liner, isn't it? Content marketing is the start of your sales process. I really like that. I'm writing that one down. Content Marketing the start of your sales process and people. This episode coming up with Clay in a few weeks time as well, where we talk about this very thing and we're mentioning the importance of regular sales activity and content marketing, social media, all of those sort of things. They they are essentially content. Sorry, they are a sales activity in some way that all those things that help build up, that know like and trust and help people, you know, enter and go further down that wonderful funnel. Yes. So I've just got pictures of funnels now. How great. So, all right, so we've talked about content marketing and we know why it's important. That's that's awesome. And it's helpful for anyone who was like, why do I have to blog all the time? Or why do I have to create content? But what does content marketing actually involve? And if you don't mind kind of just going into a bit of detail around that as well, You know, I guess we know, we know the blogging and we all feel like we've got to write a billion blogs. But what what actually does it involve?

Sarah Moore: Okay. So for me, I feel like to explain this, I need to kind of set the tone by saying that there's basically there's two sides to this coin. So what does content marketing actually involve? There's the actual logistics of things, like you said, like blogging, video content, that kind of thing. And I will touch on that. We'll talk about that. But to me, probably what's even more important is this strategy behind it. So when we're talking about what content marketing involves, we have to ask ourselves what our end goal is. Why is it important? Why am I creating this content? What am I trying to achieve? And then once you've got that end goal figured out, you can begin to actually create content. To reach that end goal, you can create content for the person that needs what your end goal is, if that makes sense. So that's probably the way I begin looking at it. And then once you start creating content, you can begin to do things like repurpose, which I know that we sort of wanted to touch on today. That's a really, really big one and I will touch on it more when I talk about more about the actual different types of content. Um, but that one's, that one's really, really important because it's a great way to, to avoid overwhelm in this space because I know people get overwhelmed by social media and that's basically because they think they have to create individual content for every single platform and for their website and for YouTube and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it just gets overwhelming. Now, the the extreme of that is people who make one piece of content and they share it exactly the same across everything. And that's also that is like that is sinful. I hate I hate it when people do that. And if you're doing it, stop it. But but I'll like I'll explain.

Lee: Not like you're judging or anything.

Sarah Moore: No, no, I'm not. I'm not judging. Hey, hey. We're all human. Yeah, it's fine. I've. I've. I've done it in the past, so there is no judgment. But the other thing I wanted to talk about that kind of lends itself to this, to this conversation is also creating content native to the platform, which I think I touched on in the last podcast as well, which is hugely important. So. So the first side to the coin is the strategy. What's your end goal and then what kind of content are we going to create to get to that end goal? So now let's talk about what kind of content we can create. And I'm just going to touch on this because I have a list that you wouldn't believe. So I'm just going to touch on a few of the bigger ones, just to give you an idea of how we can create one piece of content and we don't have to keep reinventing the wheel every single time. So for example, and this is like this is a little peek into Sarah as well because I'm about to start a new video series, hint, hint, video, and you will see me repurpose this in a similar way. So I'm going to create video content, very short form video, a couple of minutes long. I will then share that natively to Facebook, which means I put the raw video file on Facebook. I don't put a YouTube link, I don't put a Vimeo link. I put the raw file onto Facebook. I will then go and upload that to YouTube and within that will be a transcribed, basically like a mini blog underneath it will be transcribed version of what I say in that video to help with the ranking in YouTube. Okay, Google. And then once I've done that, I will put it on my website. And I will do the same thing. Now I'll put the transcription underneath because it will act as a blog post and therefore affect SEO. Um, and then what you can do with that. So that's actually something I will do, right? And I'm just going to give you an example of what you can do. Once you've done that, I can then go on something like Periscope or something where I live stream and I can give people the top key takeaways of whatever content that I've just created for that video, that polished video. Further to that, if I say anything ridiculously profound, which which you know is 5050, let's be honest, I can take that profound quote. I can repurpose it into an image in Canva and put it on Instagram or put it on Facebook or even just make a tweet out of it or a Twitter card, which is basically just a picture. It's like Instagram, but on Twitter. Um, and then as well as that, I can, uh, what else can I do with it? Just trying to pull things out of the air. Um, I can maybe go and create a worksheet based around the content that I created, especially if I'm getting feedback from it, if people are going, okay, but what about this? Or tell me more about this or I really love this, I can go, maybe I can create a worksheet and that can become an opt in. It just becomes a different form of content for your website and that helps you build your email list. So that's just an example. But I mean, in terms of content creation, so many platforms, so many platforms. So we have the obvious, um, we have the obvious social media platforms, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. I'm on Snapchat at the moment. Don't know how everyone's going with that. But like, you know, we have live streaming, things like that. So. I have a list a mile long here. I mean, you can take out sound bites of bits that you've said in your video, just like if you say something ridiculously awesome, create a sound bite. Have it on SoundCloud. There's so many different things that you can do with it. So that's kind of my. Quick overview of why content marketing is important and what it actually involves.

Lee: That's that's incredible. And you've only really scratched the surface of what's involved in content marketing. So again, people would have normally thought a content marketing is blogging and guest blogging, and that's where it ends. And I remember myself only just a few months ago, I hadn't even considered that Periscope was a form of content marketing. And, you know, they you can record your meerkat streams and your periscope periscope streams through catch, but also Periscope now just embeds them. Anyway, I think you've got a URL that you can send people to from memory. Um, if you, if you share that particular broadcast so that that becomes evergreen content that you can share and reshare. But also like you said, you know from within that some for some reason if I'm sitting down trying to write a blog, really cool one liners do not come to me. But when I'm like just going with the flow on Periscope or something like that because I'm just trying to explain something I'm passionate about. These amazing one liners come out and I'm just like, Where did that come from? I need to write that down. That was epic, you know? So stuff like that, that's fantastic. But yeah, it sounds like you're just scratching the surface. And the more you talked, the like, the more it sounds like a full time job. I was like, Oh my gosh, that's a lot of stuff to do there.

Sarah Moore: It can be. But that's why we that's why we do repurpose. And that's and once you've repurposed, you know, let's say a dozen times because let's be realistic, like we need to repeat things so that we remember them. But once you've repurposed a number of times, it becomes natural. So for me, it will be like, okay, I create my video content and that's probably going to be the hardest bit standing in front of the camera. And actually, let's be honest, it's probably not going to be hard for me to talk in front of a camera for two minutes. But like for most people, it's creating that initial piece of content. It's the sitting down to write the blog. It's the it's the creating questions for a podcast EST it's the creating the video, setting it up, getting the lighting right, saying it without stuffing up your words. Um, that first piece of content is the hardest. And so it is actually just the act of, of sitting down, standing up, whatever you do to do it, you just need to take action and do it. Once you've done that, like I will then transcribe it, which, um, there are a number of different ways to do that, but I won't be sitting there typing it myself. So that's done for me. And then I just take that and put that on my website and put it on YouTube. And then from there everything just becomes, it becomes pulling out of this and doing something with that. It doesn't I'm not reinventing the wheel and I think that's where people get stuck. They go, I've got to reinvent the wheel again for Facebook. I've got to reinvent the wheel again for Pinterest. I've got to reinvent the wheel again for Twitter. And you really don't. You've just got to take what you've already got. And and basically wring it dry. Just wring it dry until there is no moisture left in it. You know what I mean? Use it to use it to your best ability. If you want to create an eBook and you're someone who's blogged or written video content flipping, heck, just put it all together and put it like obviously order it, but take all that stuff you've already spent so much time working on and compile it into an ebook with a bit of editing. Don't reinvent the wheel. Don't sit there and try and write a 50,000 word ebook. Go and take 50. But how many is that? 1000 word blog posts. And we can see what do social media. My math is not on point. Um, but yeah, but that's why we repurpose because once we've done it enough, it actually becomes something that's easy. So just to add to that, for example, in Canva you can set up templates so that if you ever do say something profound because we only remember it for 3.5 seconds, grab that sentence. That was profound, profound, put it into your template and then download it and stick that on on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram and all those places. Um, but yeah, it's knowing little, little. Someone would say hacks, I hate that word because like a hack is Anyway, we won't get into that conversation.

Lee: It's a it sounds like a negative word. I always find a hack. It sounds to me it sounds like a negative word. I get what people are saying. They're like they're saying it's like a short, easy, effective way that, you know, that can produce results. But, you know, Hack is probably a short way of saying that really long sentence and.

Sarah Moore: Everyone use it. They're like the top the top hacks to get your content seen. It's like they're not hacks, they're tips.

Lee: Let's be top tips. Yeah, I think top hacks, top hacks, be a ninja and let's hustle. I think they're the buzzwords at the moment, aren't they? Yeah. So I should have I should have introduced you as the hustling social media ninja hack queen. There you go. That's your new job title.

Sarah Moore: Oh, my gosh. Sarah's top five hacks on how to do content marketing. Please call it that.

Lee: I'm not going to call it. Don't worry, I won't. I've got a quote from you here as well. Now, like, I've got repurpose, uh, colon. Wring it dry. Yeah, bring it dry. That's nice. And short and sharp. That's wicked. Repurposing it dry mean I can give an example as well of my own repurposing. I was asked to guest we'll do a guest post on a digital magazine. So that's coming out in a couple of weeks time. And I knocked out something like 2000 words by accident. I am just writing because obviously I was just writing my story of my experiences of social media in a web agency, and that has literally become a new episode which will be coming out shortly. It's either come out or it's coming out. I don't know because I have a whole load of episodes I need to organise in some sort of order and then push them out every Monday. But, you know, I was able to repurpose that really quickly just by keeping those 2000 words open and my main bullet points and then just hit record and record a 40 minute episode where I talk through all those points. I'd already done all the hard work. It was already in my head fresh and I was able to then record that 40 minute podcast. Equally, I can like, you know, take from that I said quite a few nice little one liners that I can grab from that and I can use those, you know, as imagery, etcetera. And also I was pretty much thinking of making some sort of download of the five key points, you know, some sort of lead magnet where I simplify it again, I've already got the content, but then I can simplify that and then just put that out there. And then another one as well. In fact, you, Sarah, encouraged me to do this one, which was great, was I wrote a guest post on, like I called it big WordPress security. So explaining to people how you can really have like enterprise level security on your small WordPress website, you know, So stop worrying about it here. Here is how to do it. And the problem with guest posts is like you kind of aren't allowed to just copy and paste that content on your own blog because the whole purpose is, is you contributed. However, I can actually still reuse that content because I can. I'm doing another episode on the WP Innovator podcast on that. So I'm recording my dulcet tones, chatting through that. But I've also been creating another lead magnet document again from your advice, which will then be, you know, put out there and it will be a very, very simplified version, you know, on how to get big security, you know, for your business really easy way. I've got to come up with a better title. But, you know, there it is. We've got content. I it took me a while to create the first one, maybe an hour to create the first post, but all the other stuff that comes off the back of that is actually pretty quick. You know, the podcast recording, it'll just flow because I've already got the structure because I've already written the document. And then to to convert that document into a minimum minimal version. Well, I kind of wrapped up my points right at the very end of the guest post so I can kind of re repurpose that as a, as a simple document. So yeah, yeah, it's really exciting. So, you know, when people are listening about the amount of content creation you can do, it can, it can seem overwhelm. But yeah, you're totally right. Repurposing is freaking awesome. It does. And oh, carry on. Yeah, go for it.

Sarah Moore: Oh no. I was just going to say further to that because something you said kind of twigged a thought when you said, um, when you said you sat down and you just kind of talked talked through it. That's the other thing. If you're not a writer, don't sit down and try and write because you're not going to get anything done. Sit down. If you're a talker, if you're like me, sit down with your phone and talk to yourself if you have to video yourself just to be able to have a conversation, do do it. It's not about repurposing that video. Exactly. It's about going. All right. I've just talked about this particular subject for three minutes. That might be 2000 words. It might not be that much. Actually. I don't know how much it would be. But then go and type it out or get someone to to do that for you because. If that's going to get the content out quicker, that's a much better way to do things. Don't sit down and work at the things that you struggle with. That's something I've learnt over time. I've realized I love video, so that's the path that I'm going down. Um, and I think that everyone will have something that they naturally go to. If you're a bit more shy, maybe you do like writing or maybe maybe just talking into your phone is more comfortable for you and then you can go and type it out or something like that. But it's just I just wanted to flag that with people because sometimes people don't realize that they can do that.

Lee: You know, that's really good. That's something that really resonates with me, especially the talking on the phone. I've got an app on my phone where I can record my voice and often I'll be driving. For example, a few episodes ago I released a ten minute bonus episode from a rainy car. It was really bad audio, but I just had like something I really passionately wanted to share. Excuse, excuse me in a ten minute short episode. And then I had that then transcribed afterwards and it turned. It was very easily turned into a blog post as well pretty quickly. So that was that was whilst I was driving home stuck in traffic. It was I was really stressed out and I was like, how can I how can I make my evening a lot better? Having been in this traffic for three hours. So just did that and knocked that out. So yeah, talking, it just comes more naturally doesn't it? Because we're all self-critical. If we're sat with a word document trying to write something, we all we're all like that author who never gets started because he's trying to work out that amazing opening line.

Lee: Yeah. And then we're self editing as we go. Whereas when you're talking, it's just you can't you can't like hit delete. Unfortunately, unfortunately, you can't get rid of the errors as well unless you send it off for audio. But anyway.

Sarah Moore: Yeah well it's so true. And then you can just ignore that when you go and type it out later on. Just go, Oh, this is what I actually meant to say. But at least you've got the idea out.

Lee: Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Got the idea out. That's brilliant. Because the ideas are out there. And actually, for me, I'm one of those people who thinks I'm an outward thinker. I have to project. I have to talk out loud to either to people and bounce off them or even just to myself. And whilst I'm talking, I'm actually kind of thinking and processing and kind of I'll get those eureka moments whilst I'm talking out loud and it'll just be like, Where the hell did that come from? But that's amazing. And I can use this. So yeah, there is, there's real power in speaking words out. So yeah, definitely encourage people there as well. Um, here's here's a question for you now you've talked about the repurposing. We've given some great examples of repurposing content as well. But is there I guess it's a twofold question, like how much content should you produce or is there a way of gauging how much content you should produce? I don't know. Is there is there like a a set metric like it is proven that if you do this and this each week. Yeah. Or is there a strategy for establishing how much content you should.

Sarah Moore: Yeah, Um, I'm going to say yes to your second answer there. I think that there's a strategy that you can come up with your with yourself. I don't think that there's a set metric, but the, the thing about content, the thing about building relationship with your people is that trust. Trust is often built just through consistency. It's through consistently seeing your face, hearing your voice, reading your words, those those kind of things. So what I would suggest to anybody listening is to have 1 or 2 excuse me, things that you do that are very consistent and you need to figure out what consistency is for you. And I think I did talk about this on my last podcast as well. But if you if you're new to creating content, if you're new to video, if you're new to podcasting, blogging, anything like that, don't set the bar high. Do not tell yourself that you're going to create content every single day in terms of blogging every day or creating video every day or something like that. Start off at a lesser pace. And then if you have that drive, if you've got all the content ideas written down and you're like, You know what, I could probably push this to twice a week or three times a week or every day, then do so once you've kind of established a rhythm already. I wouldn't suggest going in like a bullet litigate. Um, but find out what consistency is for you and then just be consistent. So I know, um, Amy Schmitter, she. I think I just said her name right. I hope I did. She she's a she kind of. Majors in YouTube and video marketing and that kind of thing. And she puts out a video every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, I believe. Anyway, it's three times a week. That's a lot of content and she never misses it. She's doesn't matter where she is, she does it and it's always good. Um, but I wouldn't necessarily necessarily recommend that for anyone sort of just starting to put out content, but that is consistency for her. Then you've got someone like Marie Forleo who puts out a really high quality video every single week, just once a week. That's her content that she puts out. Then you've got places that blog every day. Um, so you need to find out what consistency is for you because this idea is the idea is that when you create the content, you'll probably also email your subscriber list as well. So you don't want to be sending out something this week then something in three weeks, then then three things the next week. And then in the last business I had, I was consistent. Every single I think it was Wednesday I sent out a newsletter. No matter like rain, hail or shine, I was consistent with with once a week. So back to the original point. How much content should you produce that's going to be individual for everybody? And you just have to figure out what your rhythm is, what your capacity is, what you enjoy, because you don't want to burn yourself out either. And realistically, what you can produce and then stick with that and be consistent with that.

Lee: Um, that's good advice.

Sarah Moore: Yeah, thanks.

Lee: I remember. I remember trying to establish, like, um, people may know that I am a massive fan of the Fire podcast and he produces these like, daily podcasts, which are incredible. And when I first, when the idea of the WP Innovator podcast first came into my mind, I had this vision of doing a daily podcast. But then when I realized how much work was going to be involved, I guess I kind of just had to settle with every Monday, be consistent every Monday, get it out at the same time. Um, and, and also kind of to, to make life easier. I think most podcasters will probably do this. I've now got a good bank of episodes that have been recorded over the last few months so that if I need to take a break for a week and not do any recording or if I've got a big contract or anything, then I'm trying to deliver on or I need a holiday. Then I've got those that I can just schedule out as well.

Sarah Moore: And Lee, can I ask ask you for the sake of your listeners, because I already know the answer, but how has that been working for you consistently putting out a podcast every single Monday?

Lee: Well, it's been pretty awesome. Two things I've seen happen a lot. The first thing is, well, actually, let's say three things. The first thing is that we've got some great content that we can then share on social media. We're finding a lot of people engaging in sharing and retweeting that, which is great and encouraging. We're then also seeing that the statistics, so that's our downloads etcetera, seem to be consistently improving. So we're getting more and more people hearing about the podcast, are sharing it, etcetera, and we're getting a larger and larger audience growth. And then I'm also then getting some incredible connections as well. So the whole purpose of this podcast is really just to add value and to educate other people. But the kind of the offshoot of that has been that it's helped to raise my own profile and the authority, you know, it's given me the authority, perceived authority, which which is true in what I do and has therefore led to things like consultative work. So I've done a couple of paid consultative gigs now for a couple of design agencies, and it's also led to other work. And I've also been able to then create connections with other podcasters and the guests and being able to equally network on their behalf and send business their away as well. So it's it's been phenomenal just in I think we're three months old. So thanks. Good question.

Sarah Moore: Yeah. And you've had some incredible guests on the WP Innovator podcast. I'm not being paid to say this either. I just want to tell people that. But you've like like I am not necessarily in the WordPress world, but even I know who these people are and I'm like, Wow, that's pretty amazing because you're a young podcast. So I think, I think consistency has been, um, I'm not saying it's been the reason you're successful or anything, but I definitely think it's had its part to play.

Lee: Well, I do. I do have a wish list. I would love to get John Lee Dumas on the podcast. I would love to get Pat Flynn on the podcast. They're my 2 to 2 ideals. And then just for giggles, President Obama. Why the heck not?

Sarah Moore: I know someone who just interviewed John Lee Dumas, actually, so I might ask him what he did to get him on his. And he's a fresh podcaster. He's fresher than you.

Lee: Huh? Oh, the the. Oh, really? You mean the the person who interviewed John Lee Dumas? That's amazing. Yes, I would totally love. And if anyone's listening and, you know John Lee Dumas, don't forget to tell him how much you appreciate this podcast.

Lee: And also on the subject Of podcast, what really does help us is people going on to iTunes. So if you are enjoying this podcast, please do go along to iTunes and Stitcher, etcetera, and just give us a glowing review. And I'll tell you what, if you don't like this podcast, you feel I'm doing something wrong. I'd really appreciate you keeping that a secret and actually emailing me direct. So let me know how can I improve, you know, what sort of things do you want to see so that I can earn your five star ratings on these podcast review sites? So we kind of went a bit off track there. But I do have a couple more questions for you there, Sarah, but thanks. Okay. That was a great question and that was fun to answer. So thank you. It's nice to to be interviewed for a change, actually. Maybe we should do a switcheroo sometimes

Sarah Moore: we should we Should interview you. And that would be fun. Yeah. Can I do your accent the whole way through?

Lee: So Lee Actually, yeah. No, you go and have a go.

Sarah Moore: Oh, no, really? I was kidding. I was totally kidding. I'll just be like, super Ozzy or something.

Lee: Well, here's the big question for you then. We've got we've now established we need to create some sort of consistent content, put it out consistently. I know every Monday like the WP Innovative podcast, etcetera. But how is there a way that you could recommend people can measure what sort of content works? This is twofold. Again, so how could you measure what sort of content is effective and also how could you come? How do you know what sort of content to come up with? As well, I think that might be two things that people maybe we should separate the questions out, but I think you're pretty good at answering both at the same time. A lot. I think a lot of people are like, what the hell do I talk about? How do I know what to talk about?

Sarah Moore: Yeah. Okay. This is probably one of the most commonly asked questions. What do I talk about? And that there are so many answers to this because basically it just really depends where you are on your in your business journey. So if you're right at the start and you're starting out, I really despise the answer. That's like, go and ask your audience. It's like, Hey guys, I don't have an audience so you can't go and do that. So what I would recommend is if you're just starting out or you're very new, you don't have a lot of subscribers, you don't have a lot of followers, that kind of thing. Go to the people that are operate in the same area as you that create content that you would like to create. Um, you know, in a similar field, that kind of thing. Go to their videos, go to their blog posts, go to their Twitter feeds, things like that, and start sifting through comments and conversations and see what people are asking them and then go and create the content that answers that question. It doesn't matter that they've answered it. You now have ideas for content that you can go and create. Um, so another, another way to come up with content ideas is to think back to, um, this won't work for everybody either. Like these. There's the reason there's a million answers is because not every answer works for everybody. But, but another thing that you can do is think back to where you were how many years ago. So that's easy for me because there was a point where I started in social media. I haven't been doing it out of the womb kind of thing. So there was a point where I was learning. So for me, I go back and I think, Well, what was I Googling? What did I want to know? What would I have just killed to see on the front page of Google when I Googled something? Would I like? Do I want the top 20 things to post to Facebook? Like that would just have been phenomenal at the time, you know what I mean? And start creating the content that you would have wanted to have seen when you were in that place. Um, further to that, if you are further along and people are asking you questions, so you're someone who has a business where basically you can warrant having a frequently asked question page on your website, you know, you find yourself answering the same emails, answering the same tweets, answering the same messages. Use those questions to create content. Um, because oftentimes they're being asked over and over and over again because it's a question people want answered, which means they're Googling it, which means they're asking people, um, they're asking people for the answer. So they're just a few ways. The other way is to sit down and just brainstorm everything that you can that you know about your subject. Um. And that's that's that's often where people get stumped. But it can also be good. It can if you just do it as a brain dump exercise where you just go, I'm just going to get everything out of my head onto paper. That can be super helpful. Um, if you're in Facebook groups like, um, like myself or like usually we depends on the group as well. You have to be careful because you can get yourself kicked out for stuff like this. But if you have safe groups where you can say to people, I want to start creating this type of content, what are your burning questions around this? Um, I actually did that today in one of my groups. I already have heaps of content, but I'm really struggling to remember right back to day dot. I want foundational questions. I want to create ten videos that answer the most basic questions because I can't even remember them because I think, oh no, that's too basic. But it's not because once upon a time I didn't know that. So I need those questions from people who are still in that place. So I was able to do that. So there's heaps of ways, you know, you can even start to type in questions in Google and it will pre-fill the it will like pre fill the rest of the question for you. So if you start typing in um top ten WordPress and you leave it, Google will pre fill the rest like top ten WordPress themes. Top ten WordPress plugins top ten WordPress. Whatever. And then you don't have to go and read them. You don't have to go and plagiarize. You can go, You know what? I'm going to do? My top ten WordPress themes. I'm going to do my top ten plugins, I'm going to do my top ten, this or that, and it's just or don't even do ten, do nine, do 15. It doesn't really matter. But you can start to use Google in that way because it pre-fills the answer for you. And when it pre-fills the answer, it means that people are googling it as well. So there are just some ways that you can figure out what to come up with. And what was the other question? Lee I've forgotten.

Lee: What I'll do is I'll answer that one again. I'm going to just quickly plug. I actually wrote a blog post on generating ideas for your blog, so it's not necessarily Yeah, so I'm going to put that one in the show notes as well. There's a few ways on how I generate ideas, and I'm happy to say that pretty much none of them were mentioned by you just now. So you are like, you've just opened my eyes to a whole load of things that I've totally been missing. And I'm like, Oh, you.

Sarah Moore: Can amend that.

Lee: Wow, Well, I'm going to do like a part two sponsored by the ceremony. It's like, Wow, these are amazing. So these have been great. And also, if people are listening in and you've got some of those foundational social media questions, please do connect with Sarah and let her know what those questions might be. There's going to be ways to contact Sarah. We're going to wrap that up at the end of the show. We'll put down the ways to contact her and they'll also be in the show notes as well. So on the website, leeJacksondev.com/podcast, you'll be able to see the show notes and any links and ways to get in touch with Sarah as well. So all right so that question then was we've now generated all these content ideas, etcetera, which is great, but it's kind of pointless as well talking, isn't it, and creating content that people don't care about. How would you normally suggest people analyze maybe after the fact what sort of content is working so that they can do more of what's working?

Sarah Moore: Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, that's I mean, I wanted to say, well, that's easy, but it's not necessarily easy. But I think, I think in some respects it can be. So again, if you're consistent with creating a certain type of content, you're going to see over time whether or not it's received. Like is your email list growing? Are people interacting with you about it? Are they sharing it? Are they liking it? Are they resonating with it? But the other way to really measure content is to do what you're doing. Lee Which you do fantastically well, I might just add. It's to create lots of different types of content. And and to be fair, Lee's doing this with lead magnets and opt ins. So it's a tiny bit different in that we're not talking about blog posts or video content or anything like that, but you can create lots of different kinds of kinds of content and just see where you're getting your best engagement. It actually doesn't mean that you need to stop the other kind of content. It just means that maybe that seems to be the preferred platform, Even like it depends where you share it. It depends where you've got your biggest following. It depends whether you have to pay to get it seen, things like that. So I would suggest. I would suggest figure out the kind of content that you want to create. So for me, it's video at the moment. I'm going to start with that and I'm going to start putting that out in different places, and then I'm going to start gauging that and then adding to that. I don't want to create a million different types, burn myself out and then not want to create anything else. But but to to gauge whether or not it's working, it's really about. It's really about engagement. Are you having conversations around it on different social media platforms? Because somebody was it piqued somebody's interest or are you getting crickets? The other thing to remember as well is part of that equation is call to actions. Like if you're never asking people to like something or to share something or to comment on something or to. Um, answer a question that you have for them, anything like that, then people will be less likely to engage unless it resonates massively. Like I recently wrote a blog post about going to summit and finding my people there and oh my gosh, the I didn't ask for anything. I just shared it. And my only blog post on my website at the moment and it's just gone crazy because people in the community it's resonated with because it was a very personal piece and people have resonated with it and shared it and commented on it and messaged me and this and that. Um, so. But normally I would tell people that you need call to actions in there. You don't need to go overboard. But at the end say leave me a comment if blah blah blah blah. Share this. If blah blah blah blah, blah, something like that. And then you're going to see which pieces get more engagement and then go, okay, well, they seem to like the lists better than the personal ones or the they seem to like the challenges versus pure education. You're going to start seeing trends, but you have to be consistent. You have to give it time. You can't expect to know this answer after four weeks. Everything's a season. You need to give everything a season. Um, and that's going to be different for everyone depending on how often you put out content as well. But I would say give something a good six months before you decide whether or not it's the right thing for you.

Lee: That's fantastic. I'm just thinking as well, I mean, for myself, for the lead magnet stuff, I've produced things like the PDF document and I've also produced things like courses, but I've found that things where people have to put lots of their own extra time in to teach themselves on a course. People don't seem quite so attractive in kind of the areas that I'm reaching out to anyway. At least people don't seem quite so attracted to that idea. They're more interested in the quick list style or top tip style documentation, like my top secret plug in list that I've put out there has been the most converting document out there. And I don't just put lead magnets out there. Obviously, I've got this podcast where I'm not expecting people to give me details and it's the same with the blog posts, etcetera. That's just all free content that's out there to add value. But yeah, these lead magnets especially, I've been really trying to monitor what is and what isn't successful. So it's kind of led me down the track over the last couple of months now of concentrating more on value add PDFs that people would be willing to give their email address for. And then I mean, I'm still early on in this whole kind of sales funnel, understanding how this thing works. You know, I then know that I can then get some sort of a small value product together at some point to then take people down a funnel. But man, I'm still learning. So watch this space and I'm going to try and share kind of my experiences of, of learning that through the podcast as well. So that's I think that's going to be fun and I'm going to keep everyone posted. So Sarah, this has been incredible. We've already gone 50 minutes, which I've just of sheer value and that's fantastic. Um, there's, there are actually a million more questions that I could ask you, but I'm guessing people's 40 minute commute is they're probably parked outside of work listening, listening to the rest of this podcast. So we're probably going to have to, to wrap up because we did promise people we'd try and keep it a certain length, but you've been amazing, absolutely fantastic and really, really appreciate you you coming on and just giving us all this amazing advice yet again. So all that's left for us to do, I guess, is obviously to say thank you so much. And how can people connect with you, um, online, etcetera.

Sarah Moore: Okay. So you can follow me at I've got two handles on Twitter. The first is at the underscore Sarah underscore more and the other one is at 11 lights and and that's the word, not the number. Um, and then on Facebook I have at Eleven lights media and these are all I was working under my personal brand so this is all my company just kind of coming into fruition now so you can follow me in those places. I'm, we'll just put them in the show notes because I'm all over the place at the moment.

Lee: She's all over the place. You can probably ask her questions on a live stream on Periscope as well because she's regularly on there as well. So we'll make sure we get all those down in the show notes. So Sarah then, thank you so much. You've been awesome. Thank you. All that is left to say is goodbye. I'll try not to cry. Thank you again.

Sarah Moore: All right. Thanks. Thanks for having Me, Lee.

Lee: Take care. Have an awesome day. Okay. Bye bye. Wow. Episode 14. That was incredible. Sarah Moore was on point full of amazing advice. I'm really excited to go and try out things like videos and Periscope and Snapchat and all these other channels to get more word out there about what we at Lee Jackson Dev and at the WP Innovator podcast are all about. So that's really exciting. I hope to see you too on all of those channels. Now. I'd love to meet all of you people who are listening out there on the WP Innovator private group, so that's available to you on Facebook. Either type of search in Facebook for groups for WP Innovator or head over to leejacksondev.com/group that's leejacksondev.com/group to join the private group it's totally free There's a few rules like you know not too many cat pictures etcetera but it's a great place for us all to get together to connect a group of peers who can share information, ask questions and help each other out in this amazing Internet age. All right, guys, thank you so much for listening. Look forward to seeing you over at the Facebook group. Have an awesome day.