41:3 It’s not the tool, it’s the talent!

Lee:
Welcome to the Agency Trailblazer podcast, this is your host, Lee. And today on the show we have Marie Louise from Lovely Evolution. How are you today?

ML:
I’m very well, thank you. I’m loving your radio voice.

Lee:
Well, thank you very much. Folks, if you don’t know who Marie is, you can check her website out on the lovelyevolution.co.uk. And the reason that you say that is because you’re a fellow networking buddy, and you know my real voice.

ML:
I do. I know what you sound like early in the morning.

Lee:
Yes, and how many pieces of bacon and sausages and eggs I throw on a plate because we have a lovely buffet. I can’t wait for that to start again, can you?

ML:
Well, I’m looking forward to the evening networking, that’s where I’m at. Have a glass of wine, a bit of networking.

Lee:
I never went to those. We’ll have to leave a link to Connect Networking, if there’s anyone in Northampton listening to this podcast, we’re both a member-

ML:
Except it’s not called Connect anymore.

Lee:
It’s not, is it. They keep changing the name.

ML:
That’s a faux pas. The Business Community, let me correct you, Lee, The Business Community.

Lee:
Or Buzz Comm.

ML:
Or Buzz Comm as it’s also known.

Lee:
Exactly. We will make sure we leave a link in the show notes, folk, and you can check that one out.

ML:
I’m telling on you.

Lee:
Well, in all fairness, it was called Neighbo, then End Connect, then Connect and now it’s Buzz Comm, that’s a lot of rebrands. And anyone who listens to this podcast also knows that I’ve gone through quite a lot of rebrands, So I can’t really judge.

ML:
As have I.

Lee:
Yes. Well, we’re going to be talking about that today. And I can’t wait. But before we get there, what I’d really love to do is first of all, find out a little bit about you personally. So maybe let us know whereabouts you’re from, your favourite colour, that sort of thing. And then we’re going to jump in a time machine together, because I’d like to find out a little bit about your history. So can you just do a first 60 seconds that you’d normally do at networking and let us know who you are.

ML:
I’m Marie Louise from Lovely Evolution and I’m a branding, design and Canva specialist. I’m based in Northampton, but I’m not originally from Northampton. In terms of background stuff, I’m actually half Norwegian and I grew up in the Middle East, Dubai being one of the longest living countries that I lived did. If that makes sense.

Lee:
I did not know that.

ML:
Yeah. It’s my fun fact, it doesn’t often come up.

Lee:
That’s amazing. Which half is Norwegian? Bet, you’ve heard that many times.

ML:
I’ve done that joke as well. The left half. I’m also wife, mum. I’ve got a little boy who is seven at the moment. So he’s a little terror. I think you’ve witnessed his epic battle with a stuffed gorilla when I was supposed to be leading one of the Buzz Comm meetings. So yeah, so I combine all of that.

Lee:
That’s awesome. Hopefully guys, you can hear my son shouting in the background as well, which is fine because we’re a family podcast. Well, let’s jump in that time machine. It can be a tardis or whatever you want, Marie Louise, but I’d love to go back in time to when you first got into design. And I don’t care how far back that was, even if that was three with crayons. Could you just let us know what it took for you to enter the world of design?

ML:
So I’ve always been really creative growing up as a kid. I’ve always enjoyed drawing and painting and stuff. And when I got into secondary school, it was definitely clear that I wanted to do art and design. So I did art design for A-levels and absolutely loved it. I also knew that I didn’t want to be a starving artist and that it wasn’t in my remit to be doing all of that, how do you make this blob of abstract paint mean something really deep. I felt like I wasn’t that soulful in that way.

ML:
So I knew I wanted to be creative, but I also knew I wanted to do something that was commercial, that I could make some money out of it. So with some advice of my teacher whilst in A-levels, I decided to do an art design foundation course in Farnham, which at the time it was called the Surrey Institute of Art Design.

ML:
And then I stayed on there and studied packaging design. Whilst I was doing my degree, towards the end, they were making some big changes with the degree. They were joining up with some other creative universities and were combining and rebranding themselves. And so I had the opportunity to change the title on my degree because of those changes. And actually, although I was studying, I signed up for packaging design, I ended up going down more the branding route rather than the packaging side. So, my projects were more doing logo design, I was even doing mock-ups for websites and stuff.

ML:
And I also came to the conclusion that to have a career in packaging, because I did quite a few work placements and stuff in the industry, I was like, I noticed that you either did the 3D stuff, or you did the graphic that went on that 3D. You didn’t combine the both. And that’s what I really loved and appealed to me when I signed up to do packaging design.

ML:
So I took a decision to go down the graphics route because I felt that it opened up my opportunities a lot more and it was where my interest was taking me. And so that’s the route I took. So I’ve been working in a number of design agencies, one in Northampton. And then worked in London based office for a number of years, eight years I think I was with them.

ML:
And then back in 2015, they were making changes of locations and stuff, and I’d had enough, it was time to move on. I was getting a bit mossy from sitting still. And so yeah, I looked at what opportunities there were in Northampton again. But at that point I had returned to work after having my son and he was under the age of two and I was like, I’m not ready to work full time again. I’d gone to work at four days a week, and I really liked that. I felt that was a good amount practically from a salary point of view, but also still being able to see my child.

ML:
And I guess for me as well on the subject of motherhood, I’ve always loved what I do. So for me being a designer, being creative, it’s such a big part of my identity. So I always knew that I wanted to combine working with being a mum. I wanted to have both. And I have. So yeah, so I decided to work for myself full time. I had actually already set up my business, which was called Lovely Designs back in 2008/2009.

ML:
And that was in response to, I got married in 2008, and of course being a control freak, I designed all my invitations and all the table staff and all the kind of stuff that you can think of, I did. And I thought, well, actually this is quite fun, maybe this is something I can do on the side. So, that’s what I did. I set up this business, originally with my best friend, and then she stepped away.

ML:
And by the time it came to that decision to work full time, I was already a bit over weddings. I was like, it had never really taken off. It certainly meant that I had certain practical things set up. I had a website and I had tax stuff sorted out. So it also gave me an insight of it’s not just a case of turning up and doing some jazz hands going, I’m here, hire me. And I guess that leads into how I chose to focus my marketing, which is through networking, which is how I found NM Connect as it was then when I discovered it.

Lee:
Well, I’m just thinking of how I personally got into networking, and we were in a situation where we were serving anybody, we had this huge marketplace where if anybody needed anything that was remotely related to design or the web, we would somehow be able to give them a quote and we’d find a way of doing it. But that meant that when we went to networking, we basically had no identity. And I love how you mentioned that being creative and being a mother was part of your identity. You absolutely want to be able to do both. And you have. And that’s freaking awesome.#.

Lee:
For us, we had no identity whatsoever. And we actually had to learn that when we joined networking so that we could effectively generate leads. Because if you say I’m looking for anybody who needs a website, then essentially we got nobody. And that sucked.

Lee:
So on that, what was your journey like? You’d gone from, it sounds like from being in weddings and being a bit jaded by that. What was your transition from that into a more commercial outreach?

ML:
Like you, I was quite broad; in my career, I’ve had a very varied in terms of all the projects, types of clients. I enjoyed that variety of doing anything from an exhibition stand and all the graphics associated with that, planning it, doing a little bit of packaging, doing logo design, website design.

ML:
When I was working in agencies, I ended up going down the more … the kind of companies I was working at, they were more print-based so annual reports and brochures and stuff like that. And so I was open to see where it went. Like you, when I was networking, I knew that I couldn’t just reel off, well, I can do business cards and this and that. After the third thing, if I’m lucky, people would get bored.

ML:
And I think something that I learned from visiting B&I, shush, don’t tell people.

Lee:
I won’t tell Paul.

ML:
Don’t tell Paul.

Lee:
Dear Paul, Marie’s on a podcast interview with me right now. No sorry, carry on.

ML:
On that, by the way, just pick you up on that, it’s Marie Louise or ML.

Lee:
Sorry. I deserve that.

ML:
You got an X. Then do some poo in the post. Yeah, so what I found by visiting B&I, seeing what networking I wanted to take on, what I noticed quite quickly was that those people who were really specific in who they were looking for, who they worked for, introductions to, were much more interesting to listen to, but also people stuck in your mind more.

Lee:
Absolutely.

ML:
So it did take me a little bit of time to figure that out because I saw myself as being quite a broad designer. But over time I noticed, after a year or two, I really took that time to reflect on what kind of projects was I attracting, what projects did I really enjoy? And I noticed that it was the logo design with a bit of branded stuff together. It was the more complete cohesive projects rather than, could you just do a flyer? I could do a flyer, but I really enjoy doing the holistic approach of, you create the logo and the business card and other bits and bobs as well.

ML:
So yeah, so I enjoy doing that. And I then was like, well, okay, well, there’s other people doing logo design and stuff. Is there any other thing that I can niche down even further? And I happened to do a couple of projects where they wanted a bit of logo work, but it was really just some tweaks, it was a bit of a redesign, but it was a real nod to what was done before. One of them was for Asheesh who’s in Buzz Comm and Web Alliance, I really loved it. I loved that challenge of, well, what do you keep? Because you have that existing client base and customer client recognition. And what needs to go. And I just loved that.

ML:
So it got me down thinking, I trialled it with networking of talking about this branding evolution. And I got a really good response from it. So I was like, okay, well, maybe I need to rebrand myself to really focus in on that. And so I did, but it did take me a good six months of dilly dallying as to what do I do with the name? Do I keep the name Lovely in? And is that too twee? Is it to nice or too feminine? Is it this or that? And so I did some ideas and then sat on it for quite a while.

ML:
And then I relaunched as Lovely Evolution in January, 2019. And alongside that, I went to that effort of rebranding, but in the meantime I’d discovered Canva, someone had recommended it. And I was like, wow, this looks really good. I can see how I could create something in Canva, bespoke templates for my client. And it’s easy for them to use it and get going. I can make sure it’s all consistent, all set up and all looking lovely.

Lee:
Hence the name.

ML:
Yeah. I still want to do lovely designs. And so I just found that I was really building up this name for myself with Canva in the networks I was in. So yeah. So I do feel that I’ve done the job maybe a bit too well that people know me as Canva, and maybe are not as aware that branding is a key part of what I do.

ML:
And that’s how I feel I have that point of difference within Canva funny enough, because I feel that there’s lots of resources and people out there on the Canva bandwagon. But I think the difference is for me, I’m bringing my 16 years of practical design experience. I’ve got a degree in design that I’m bringing that branding information and knowledge, but using Canva as the tool. So I think it’s a really powerful combination, not only in the service that I do, if I’m doing a [inaudible 00:13:26] for you for a client, but I also train it. So I’ve been doing that for a good couple of years now. Where I dabbled, we’re doing some workshops and then launched some online training services as well. So yeah, it’s going from strength to strength.

ML:
And what was really exciting was back in February, which was quite a dark time, quite literally in terms of daylight saving, but also just generally it’s been a tough-

Lee:
That was a dad joke, by the way, I’m impressed. I like it, it was perfect.

ML:
Sorry. I’m such a dad at heart. Yeah. I make some jokes at home and my husband, Matthew, is just like, God, shaking his head. And then you make the mistake of trying to explain it because you’re like, maybe they don’t get it. It’s like, “No, I got it. It just wasn’t funny.” And there’s me giggling away. I find it funny.

Lee:
I make myself laugh too, it’s a great talent.

ML:
That’s good to know. Fellow dad joker. Yeah, it was a dark time in all senses of the word. It’s been a tough year, I think many people can relate. And out of the blue, I got contacted on LinkedIn by this publishing company. They were like, “We’d like you to be involved in this book about Canva.” I Was like, “Yeah. All right, let’s have a chat and discuss it.” There’s me thinking they want me to do a chapter or something, bit like this is community toolkit book, segue into that.

ML:
Yeah. So I had the meeting and they were like, “No, no, no, we want you to write the book.” I’m like, “Okay then.” Didn’t see that one coming. So yeah. So I’m on chapter two after a fair bit of toing and froing with the book outline, what’s going on with that.

ML:
So being part of Canva has been … I could never have looked into a crystal ball ahead and have seen how it would have impacted my business in such a way that I’d be asked to write a book about it. So yeah, it’s really exciting now because I know that by the end of this year, the book will be published, it’ll open up lots of opportunities for me. It’ll be another way for me to help people with Canva. But also again, me sneaking in a bit of that branding and design know how. So yeah. So things are looking up.

Lee:
Utterly phenomenal. I’d love to pick up on Canva as well, because I think that the industry we’re in can get a little bit snobby and people will say that you need to use Photoshop and InDesign, et cetera, et cetera. What would your answer be to them?

ML:
Well, I have two answers for that. One is yeah, I can keep being snobby, it’s more work for me. The other side of it is, well, actually Canva is a tool. I’ve always believed, and when we had a quick chat before, that you could use something like PowerPoint or Word and create something that looks really good. Yes, there’s limitations, but in the right hands, you can create something fantastic.

ML:
The same goes in the opposite, you can have the best tool in the world, like InDesign, love InDesign. But if you don’t know what you’re doing, it’s going to be pretty basic or a bit rubbish. So it’s not about the tool, it’s about the talent, and combining the two.

ML:
And I think what I love also about Canva is that it’s very easy to use. I mean, yes, I’ve come across people that I’ve trained that have maybe struggled and it’s taken a little bit longer for them if they’re a bit less tech savvy, or just a bit nervous about getting it wrong. But I think once you get over that hump of where things are and you just start playing with it and giving it a go, that actually you can build upon that knowledge. And it’s just really great. It’s a real time-saver once, again, you’re familiar with it. Like any tool initially, it’s like, well, where is that? What am I doing?

ML:
But I think where I can help people is that there’s lots of things hidden away or people aren’t aware of, as well as those design principles that they haven’t been taught yet, that I can help them save that time. But also I’m a great believer that people can develop a design eye, you may not necessarily identify as being creative or you’re not a trained designer, but it doesn’t mean that you have to stay being crap with Canva. You can grow and get better with it like any life skills.

Lee:
That’s one of your taglines I saw on your website, I love that one.

ML:
It is, yeah.

Lee:
I just want to echo as well, I totally agree, Canva is phenomenal, to the extent that Canva has actually done our imagery for this podcast and for our YouTube channel for many years. So if you listen to this show and you appreciate our artwork, we did that in Canva, guys. Shock alert.

Lee:
Equally, I did a video, didn’t I, a while go, and you actually listened to it and said, “Lee, you didn’t do half a bad job on that.” Which I think was a compliment. So I’ll make sure I put a link in there as well, guys. Because you actually could set up relevant templates and then manage the workflow essentially of getting imagery out there for clients. There’s so much, and I only touch the very tiny tip of the iceberg.

Lee:
What I would recommend you do is go to lovelyevolution.co.uk, and click on the creating with Canva at the very top. Because regardless of whatever tools you use, especially if you have a team of art workers or people who are working on outputting stuff, whilst you, the lead designer, want to focus more on the creative elements, then something like Canva and the training that Marie Louise has to offer here will be of immense value.

Lee:
In fact, let’s talk about that. What started you with the Canva circle programme that you launched?

ML:
So I had started out with doing a monthly membership, which is called the Lovely Canva Club, which is a little bit on hold. I’m still doing the training, I have members of it, but what I will do with the future of that, I’m not quite sure yet. But what I was doing with the club was doing one month I would train on maybe how to create your own business card in Canva. And then the next month I’d be talking about a particular tool like the texts tools and stuff like that.

ML:
And what I was finding is that, yes, that’s great to boost your knowledge and people could watch stuff on replay, but I felt that there wasn’t that flow in my mind of, coming back to the branding and design foundation, that there wasn’t that flow.

ML:
So I decided to collate particularly the relevant trainings and categorise them into three modules. So I’ve got one that’s all about branding, which is the one that I would recommend people start with. Because that’s going to be the foundation of what they do. Then I’ve got quite a extensive module on social media, because I think …

ML:
The way I see it, even though I’ve done a lot of website design and work with developers in the past, I think you can really easily set up a business without necessarily having a website. But what you do need to have is some form of logo. Ideally, one that looks good and professionally designed, but you want to have something that represents you and your business. And you want to be there on social media, whether it’s on all of them or just one platform. But you need to have some way of communicating with potential clients. And that’s a bare minimum. So that’s why I’ve included social media in it. It’s such a big part of how we market ourselves.

ML:
And then I have a module which is all about design. And so that’s more of a … slightly more print based, so things like business cards, greeting cards, flyers and stuff like that. There’s also, I’ve snuck in presentations because I was like, where do I put that? That can go in design. So yeah.

ML:
So the idea is that people can take themselves through these prerecorded trainings. At some point in the future, I’ll go through and rerecord some of them because obviously Canva moves on and creating handouts. And I’m sure I’ll be improving those as I go.

ML:
But the real power is not just like, hey, here’s some training or videos to watch, look at a handout. I offer group support sessions. And that’s where the real power is because it’s a safe space to be able to say, hey, I’m struggling with this, can I get some feedback? And that’s where I can really guide people.

ML:
So I get them to share their screen. It’s on Zoom and I say, “Okay, well, click on this. And then you click on that. Right, if you move that over there.” So I could do it, I could take control and do it. But it’s much more powerful when people click and do stuff themselves.

ML:
It’s a little bit like if you’re going on a car journey, if you’re the driver going somewhere, even if you’ve got a sat nav telling you where to go, you’re much more likely to remember the route. And have a vague idea if you’ve got to do that journey again but without your sat nav friend. Versus if you’re a passenger and you’re enjoying the scenery and chatting away about what you had for breakfast and stuff like that. And then you went, oh right, I’ve got to do that journey without any, again, sat nav help, you’re not going to pick it up as well. Because you’re not as invested in turning left, that kind of almost muscle memory and seeing things. It’s a very different way.

ML:
So it’s a really good way of learning. I’ve been told by someone who teaches about different learning methods and stuff like that. A chap called Scott Hunter from the [inaudible 00:22:47] crowd, he’s worth having a chat with actually, Lee. And so I was talking about Canva and a lot of some of the things we were talking about now, and he was saying, “Actually, the way you’ve come together and created this programme and the way of teaching actually is really, really good.” I was like, “Oh, okay, well I just used the way I like to learn, as well as experimenting with what works and evolving it over time.” You’ve got to get started, haven’t you, and then make those changes, make those improvements.

ML:
I mean, yeah, long-term, I’d like to be on something like Kajabi or Thinkific and have it all nicely, look all posh. But ultimately I still need to know that the real gems is that group support sessions is the key to being able to stay accountable, to be able to see what other people have done. Because we learn from each other, we’re not learning in this vacuum, we’re in it together as it were.

Lee:
There’s a song in my head, and I’m not going to sing it, it will age me.

ML:
I don’t know which one you’re talking about.

Lee:
That’s good, because you’re far too young to remember, High School Musical.

ML:
Okay. I never watched that movie, it looks a bit cringe-y.

Lee:
Yeah. You are glad. Folks, another use case I thought of as well, just looking at this line here, are you getting the results you want or is the outcome looking a bit, well, crap? It led me to thinking about those clients with smaller budgets who will often ask you to do the whole branding exercise. And then they’ll say, oh, great, and we’ll take this in-house, and they’ll try and do everything else. And it will look awful and they will ruin your gorgeous work.

Lee:
They do the same with websites as well, if they take over the page builder. So this certainly looks like something as well that you could say to a client, “Hey, we recommend you go and take this course in Canva because that means you can honour this brand a little better, learn a little bit about branding, learn as well the basics of design, and also learn how to use a great tool.” Because that hopefully will translate into a more positive outcome for the gorgeous brands that you spent all those hours designing and then worrying about what they’re going to do with it.

ML:
Yeah, and I think that’s always the danger, isn’t it? When you create something, and as the expert, the professional, as soon as you hand it over to them, there’s no guarantee that they’ll take on board the styling that you’ve done. It can all go horribly wrong or not so great. I’ve seen it happen time and time again.

Lee:
There should actually be a support group I think for designers just about that one thing I think.

ML:
I’m sure there probably is somewhere. I guess for me, it’s just a case of being realistic about my part in that ecosystem. And that I work with a lot of small businesses and single owner businesses, entrepreneurs and the like, and so I get it that budget is key. So, I guess I’m honoured and grateful when they do use my services because I know it is an investment for them.

ML:
But equally they know me well enough, and they’ve seen the results that hopefully they’re happy that they made the investment.

ML:
But yeah, ongoing, if people are doing it themselves, it can go wrong. But it’s about taking that time and having that interest to improve. And again, that’s something that I can help with. I’ve had people that I’ve trained that have been my client, or have then become my client and vice versa. I think it can be a bit more interchangeable, that it doesn’t have to be, oh, work with me, and then it ends.

ML:
I’m just in the midst of doing a rebrand for someone where I created their logo, but they’re changing their name, and their business mission is changing a little bit. And so it’s great to be a part of this next phase of their business. So it can be a long-term relationship, but I also don’t hold my breath either. And it’s nothing personal. It’s just again about what the client’s needs are, and where they’re at.

Lee:
Absolutely. Folks, if you want to learn more about Marie Louise and Lovely Evolution, check out lovelyevolution.co.uk. What’s the best way for people to contact you, would it be an email or would it be on one of your socials?

ML:
So, if they want to drop me an email, that’s fine, that’s ml@loveyevolution.co.uk. And that’s on the website as well. Happy to connect on LinkedIn, I’m there, and search my name, Marie Louise O’Neil, I’m quite easy to find.

Lee:
I’ll put a link into your LinkedIn in the show notes as well. I’ve just copied and pasted it.

ML:
Good. And I’m on Instagram as well. Although the link on my website is not correct.

Lee:
Doesn’t work, because I just tried it.

ML:
No. It’s on my long to-do list, sort out, update my website. So Lovely Evolution Design, that’s what I am on Instagram.

Lee:
Right. I’ll put that in the show notes as well. So folks, you heard it here first, you can connect on email, on LinkedIn and also on Instagram. And don’t forget to visit lovelyevolution.co.uk if you’re interested in that Canva course or know someone who could benefit from it. I do recommend you click on it, Creating with Canva. Marie Louise, thank you so much for your time. Have a wonderful day.

ML:
Thank you for enjoying my dad joke.

Lee:
It was the best. Take care.

ML:
Thanks, bye.

Lee:
Bye.