40:5 Rebrand – A client’s experience

0:00:10.6 Lee: Welcome to the Agency Trailblazer podcast! This is your host Lee with an exceptionally deep voice, because of my allergies, joined today by the one, the only, the Wunderbar Nicole Osborne. How are you today?

0:00:26.2 Nicole Osborne: Lee, I’m loving your voice. Thank you so much for having me on. I obviously can’t match it, but I’m loving it. I’m sure our listeners will as well. [laughter]

0:00:34.1 Lee: I kinda wanna keep this voice.

0:00:36.1 NO: I want you to. [laughter]

0:00:38.3 Lee: I was singing to my wife this morning, “Baby, lock the doors and turn the lights down low”. I just don’t like that little inflection that goes on, like I sound like a teenage boy whose voice is breaking.

0:00:47.3 NO: We should ask Kate. [laughter]

0:00:50.8 Lee: We should. Folks, if you don’t know who Nicole Osborne is, she is a very good friend of mine. We’ve known each other for many years. We met at the Youpreneur Summit many moons ago, back when I had a full head of red curly hair. She has essentially worked alongside me for many years providing support and just being generally awesome and encouraging. So, Nicole, I’d like to thank you on our podcast for just being such a lovely person, who has always championed what I do and what Agency Trailblazer does. And we want to champion what you’re doing and learn about your journey. You last joined us on the podcast quite a few episodes ago, and we shall put a link to your episodes in the show notes.

0:01:31.1 Lee: Guys, I do recommend you go check those out. But the last time you were on the show, you were actually Lollipop Social and you decided to go for a massive rebrand. I believe that’s because your audience started to change. You started to figure out who your target audience was or niche down further. And I think that was as a result of the agency transformation or things like that. And then you’ve realized you needed to make that leap to a rebrand that would therefore attract those people. So could you just give us a little bit of insight into that overall journey. When was the first point you started to figure out who it was you wanted to reach out and when was… When and how did you feel about changing from Lollipop Social because I know personally, I get really connected to my brand and I’d get scared. So, over to you.

0:02:24.4 NO: Oh my goodness, you’re so right. Lee, first of all, danke schön. You have been so instrumental in me specialising to work with you at digital agencies, because you opened my eyes to how much fun I have with that crowd, and actually how much I already knew them by having been a marketing director for so long and that very agency transformation life event was a real key milestone, so thank you so much, I really am appreciating all your positivity and support, so everything you say, right back at you.

0:02:51.6 Lee: Thank you.

0:02:53.1 NO: So, rebranding, yes. So, most people know me virtually as Lollipop Social. So, a personal brand business I started off as a marketing consultant, marketing coach four years ago after I had worked in corporate life for 16 years. And yeah, it was a real emotional rollercoaster, and I’m sure it’s the same for many clients, for agencies who go through a rebrand, who want to have a new website, because when you have developed your brand to really reflect your personality, to really show your identity, what you care about and what you want your audience to pick up, it’s really hard to let it go. [laughter]

0:03:32.2 Lee: Absolutely.

0:03:33.7 NO: Sorry, I laugh nervously now. So, you asked me what prompted it, and absolutely what you said, I niched down into working more with digital agency owners, time short digital agency owners, and the challenge I really faced, the name Lollipop Social suggested that I was providing social media management services, which I was in the beginning, but my business had evolved so much, that I was really focusing on the training and coaching side of things, and it just always took so long to explain all that. So I had a really huge long, hard talk with myself, and I think you and I chatted at the time as well. And I said, look, I think it’s time for a new brand, it’s time for a new name, but I’m not feeling ready, tell me I should be ready. I think you supported me at the time, I think you helped me originally find the agency, which then ended up helping me, fantastic agency, Design Box Media.

0:04:25.9 Lee: Amen.

0:04:27.2 NO: I sent you some design concepts. I can just say I was really, “Oh, my God, I know I need to do this.” My head was telling me as a business builder I need to do this, but emotionally, I don’t think I was quite ready to. So… [laughter]

0:04:41.0 Lee: Yeah.

0:04:41.6 NO: I was nervous about it and not just the investment in terms of money, I think it’s really important we invest in ourselves, we invest in our businesses to continue growing and to continue to have the lifestyle we want. But really just letting go that fun brand. One of the funny things really, and I’m sure the Design Box Media team will tell you that, so I was a very open-minded, I was trying to be the bestest client possible. [laughter]

0:05:03.9 Lee: Yeah.

0:05:04.5 NO: I laugh, I laugh now. But I had one stipulation, I wanted the new brand to really still represent my energetic and fun personality, but I needed them to keep my green branding colour, ’cause we work from home, right? And I have this videorative wall, which basically has got this beautiful green colour, and my husband had only just painted it. And it took me months to get him to paint my office. So I had a chat with Thomas and Mark from the agency, the lead designers. I said, “Look, whatever we do, I need this green still to work, but other than that over to you.” [laughter]

0:05:40.3 Lee: I’ve seen one tiny bit of green on your website right now. [laughter]

0:05:44.0 NO: I know. But it’s still there as a complementary colour.

0:05:48.8 Lee: Well done, guys.

0:05:49.6 NO: So, the first thing we did, we did a really long discovery phase, and they asked me a lot of questions about my target market, about how I felt about my own brand, how I wanted to be perceived, and we came up with this sort of key words and they really married up my original personal brand values and then evolving it. Then as a next step, once we’d agreed those, they showed me a design concept just of some images and fonts and colors they were really inspired for, like a mood board I would say. So we had a chat about a mood board, and once we were happy with that, they went into logo design, [chuckle] because for me that was really the first thing we needed to do is to come up with a new logo for Wunderstars. Yeah, it was really exciting, quite emotional as well because all of a sudden you get so many options and you’re constantly doubting yourself, but they really advised me really well, and I also reached out to my network.

0:06:44.9 NO: And yeah, when we agreed the star, the treatment of the star, the font for Wunderstars, so that was really step number one. But yeah, I think when you run your own business, even though we all have great support networks and we have our teams around us, it’s still you making all these decisions, and whilst that’s really empowering because you don’t have to wait for anyone else, it is also quite… Not scary isn’t the right word. But worrying. Am I making the right decision? Is this the right logo? So yeah, you have to be just really quite brave, and I continuously kept picturing… Do you know I have this GIF I really like. It’s basically Bridget Jones holding up her big girl pants, and I continuously picture, “Nicole, just be the bravest version of yourself and do this.” [laughter]

0:07:28.3 Lee: Now, I can already draw some lessons from this, which is awesome. The very first one people hear me and you, I believe, harping on about this all the time, but it’s always knowing your target audience, isn’t it? Obviously knowing your why and all that sort of stuff is important, but equally, knowing who the people you serve is so important. And it was that I believe that has triggered you saying, “Yes, I need to move from Lollipop Social, which gives the wrong impression to a different name.” So that was scary, picking a different name, and a completely new brand. Again, what I’m hearing in your journey there is the overall fear and potentially overthinking things, “What will people think? Will this appeal to X, Y and Z? Am I doing the right thing?” etcetera, and yeah, I remember you passed a few things over to me and it was a very quick “Wow” back from me, ’cause obviously Design Box Media, Tom and the team, are wonderful, so we knew they were gonna come up with some awesome stuff.

0:08:19.9 Lee: But I do like what you’ve got. You’ve got a great colour combination going. It absolutely reflects your personality. Guys, if you wanna check out what we’re talking about, go over to wunderstars.com. I’d say W but do please click the link in the show notes, and you can check out her website. You’ll all remember when I had the angle crown brand that I covered it in pink, and there is a gorgeous pink, a lovely royal purple going on in here as well, and I can see the complementary green you mentioned throughout, but also some great images as well, and that’s what I’d kind of like to go on to next. You came on to our podcast as Lollipop Social, but also as Nicole Osborne, and you were always talking then about the importance of a personal brand, and you still do talk about the importance of a personal brand, which is great. So did you find any difficult trying to marry Wunderstars, the new brand you were developing, with the Nicole Osborne?

0:09:10.7 NO: It’s a good question. Do you know if I was to do it all again, maybe four years ago, I would have named my business Nicole Osborne, but I have to be honest, I wasn’t terribly close with my mother-in-law, so it just didn’t appeal to me. Now Wunderstars, the name Wunderstars… Actually, do you know what was funny about it? I had already launched a coaching program called Wunderstars, so all my clients had already been really familiar with the term Wunderstars, so it felt like a natural evolution to name the entire business Wunderstars because already I loved saying the word, my clients really liked it. It was made up of… My mom’s maiden name was Wunder, and the work I do, it’s essentially all about giving people confidence, agency, and this confidence to be more visible, to attract between clients, and to make them feel great. So just like stars.

0:09:58.4 NO: So photos, you asked me about photos. Now, I believe it’s so important that whether you’re a one-woman show or a one-man show, or you have a team around you, that you share pictures of yourself and your team because we all work with people. Just think of the last purchase you made, maybe a service, you have an extension built on your house, or maybe something for your business, you want to know who you’ll be dealing with, and particularly actually when dealing with digital marketing projects, which at some time can always be really lengthy or time-consuming, things might go wrong, so yes, for me, I really felt the pressure because this is what I do. I really felt the pressure to come up with some amazing images. And it was also the time when we were facing a lockdown, so this had been planned for a long time. So you know I said I try to be a really good website client, I knew I needed to have amazing written content, and I knew I needed to have amazing photos to really make the job of Design Box Media as easy as possible.

0:10:57.0 NO: So amongst my Wunderstars, I have this amazing photographer. Her name is Catherine Barry from Entirely Catherine Barry Photography. And I thought, “God, I wanna go with Catherine because she totally gets me,” because she’d been working with me, and she knew I wanted to bring across that bubbly kind of personality, but also evolving it to perhaps being slightly more serious and really energetic. So I made this into a treat for myself. We’d booked a really lovely hotel in Shoreditch, really trendy. I remember we were so excited about it because it was just around that phase last September, when they had just opened up again for a short time, so we had this beautiful hotel where we knew it was the right setting in terms of my branding. They had really funky interior design, lots of different backgrounds with graffiti, that kind of stuff. Catherine then put together an amazing… How do you call it… A shoot list, so it’s basically what outfits to wear in what locations. She was so organized so that the hours we had together, we got through so many different locations and so many different expressions, and she really helped me to feel at ease. And I know Lee, I always look like I’m the most comfortable person in front of a camera, but really inside I just want to hide away. [chuckle]

0:12:05.5 Lee: Oh no, I can see the screaming in your eyes, absolutely. [chuckle] I’m joking.

[laughter]

0:12:09.8 NO: So do you know what she did? She got me to sing some German nursery rhyme songs, and that really put me at ease. It was hilarious.

0:12:17.5 Lee: That’s all I’m gonna think of now.

0:12:19.6 NO: I know. And I’ll show you a reel. And you know the moment you have to walk in front of a camera, you just go totally stiff, don’t you? You’re like, “I can’t walk, possibly walk.” [chuckle]

0:12:28.0 Lee: Well, the other thing, all I can think of is… This stems back from kids telling me I was fat when I was little, is, “Am I holding my chin up well enough?” ‘Cause I don’t want to show the double chin. That’s all I’d think about in every picture.

0:12:41.4 NO: And you laugh because this is… When Cathy and I, we did our discovery call and were briefing, and I was very much, “Look, I want it to be high energy, I want to have lots of different pictures I can use across all my different channels, and I want to have a variety of outfits because I really want to get the most of it. But can you please also make sure that my double chin isn’t showing?”

[laughter]

0:13:01.3 Lee: So, on these though, Wunderstars has a very specific colour palette and I can see that there’s a very specific design language which I really, really do like.

0:13:09.0 NO: Thank you.

0:13:09.7 Lee: And was it purposeful with regards to those images that you were to match them up, ’cause most of the images I’m seeing on here of you do marry up very well with the Wunderstars branding, which came first? I guess is the chicken and the egg question.

0:13:21.3 NO: The colours of the Wunderstars brand came first, and then I just made sure that the outfits I chosen were outfits I would normally wear, maybe my outfits which make me feel great, but also with complementary colours. And then Catherine was amazing at picking some locations where actually it really matched in terms of the colour setting. And then I sent all the images through to Design Box Media. They had given me some guidance on what would make great images for websites prior to that, even though Catherine knew as well. And I basically let Mark and Tom make those choices because I think it’s really hard when you look at pictures of yourself. All you can see is, “Oh my god, I’ve got a pimple there. Oh my god, this hair isn’t quite in place.” So, I think it’s good to really trust the experts and they know how you want to come across, and for them to choose the best options. I always say whatever you do, don’t ask your spouse or friends for marketing advice because they will perceive you so differently, right? The version they get at home is not what you need to portray to your audience. [laughter]

0:14:19.3 Lee: No, that’s very true. I am the I need to go to bed now, I’m too tired guy when I’m at home.

0:14:25.2 NO: Right? Kinda.

0:14:26.2 Lee: And when I’m on the podcast I sound like I have oodles of energy and then I collapse afterwards going, “Oh, it’s exhausting.”

0:14:32.3 NO: I am the same, but I think it’s fine, isn’t it? We have to regulate our energy levels and of course for this interview, we had a coffee, we had a Coke, whatever it might have been just to perk up a bit. It’s normal. [laughter]

0:14:43.9 Lee: So, going from Lollipop Social, and you confessed that quite a long time ago that the Lollipop Social you felt had aged, it was an aging brand anyway. What was the initial feeling showing up on day one when you launched Wunderstars, psychologically for you, how did it feel?

0:15:05.1 NO: Oh my. Well, Lee, you know what I’m like. I’d already had a couple of podcast interviews in the month leading up to it where I knew the due dates, the launch dates were after the launch, so I had to kind of say, “I know you know me as Lollipop Social but I will be Wunderstars in two weeks time. Can we make this about Wunderstars?” Well, do you know, I think it’s so important when you re-brand and you have a new website that you really celebrate it externally, right? But to be honest with you, I was absolutely exhausted by the time it was launch time [laughter] because you had made all these decisions, and you know what it’s like. You re-brand and all of a sudden you need to have a new lead, you need to re-brand your newsletters, you need to come up with new names.

0:15:43.0 NO: I have a price guide on my website which completely needed re-branding. And you know, Design Box Media took care for everything. They did absolutely amazing job and they went completely beyond and totally exceeded expectations, but essentially I was exhausted. It didn’t matter how much help I had from everyone and support and everyone cheering me on, that’s my family, my customers and my audience because I kind of raised anticipations and said, “Look, it’s coming, it’s coming,” but I was really exhausted, so to be honest the launch of it was really… I knew I had to promote it. I did the bare minimum because all I wanted to go was sleep and not having to think of anything for a while.

0:16:20.6 Lee: And let’s fast forward then to your first work day when you’d recover then. You are now identifying as Wunderstars. I identify very much with the Agency Trailblazer brand and I feel like…

0:16:31.6 NO: And it’s future, yeah.

0:16:32.1 Lee: I can personify as it were, so when I go out doing things, even now I feel so freaking proud of it. What was that feeling when you started your first day back at consultancy and you’re now Wunderstars? What was that feeling like?

0:16:43.4 NO: Amazing, amazing because I did a virtual events talk…

0:16:47.7 Lee: Ah, nice.

0:16:48.8 NO: Quite early on, so I had a brand new set of slide decks, so everything was new and I just felt so good saying, “Hey, I’m Nicole from Wunderstars. I’m a marketing coach for digital agencies.” It just felt brilliant. I really loved it, and I got a lot of positive feedback which really encourages me. And I finally got to buy some helium balloons shaped as stars. I do like to do these things, my son loves them. And I was just totally… I loved it, and I had no regrets. I had no regrets whatsoever. I knew it was right because I think when you can say your new name really well and it is a good energy and you have a slide deck behind you like, “Yeah, that’s so me.” And I was just so proud of the website. And do you know in particular, the audience we’re working with, you guys are all experts in websites, so I really felt the pressure was on. But do you know, I was very realistic. I launched the first version of my website and we are evolving it, and I think it’s completely natural when you have a project of that size. So yeah, no, no, it was a great feeling updating all my social media profiles using all my new photos, and there were a couple of times when I was about, “Nicole from Lo… Wunderstars.” [laughter] I made myself practise, I’m like, I’m so German and organised. [laughter]

0:18:01.4 Lee: Guys, you can actually check out as well, I’ll put a link in the show notes to Nicole’s YouTube channel, do subscribe.

0:18:06.5 NO: Thank you.

0:18:06.8 Lee: She has some fantastic content on there, but you can also see how the brand is essentially being replicated or used throughout Nicole’s journey or throughout her content. It’s the same through, over on her Facebook as well, sorry Instagram as well. So we’ll put your social links in there and people can go ahead and check those out, and I do recommend you follow.

0:18:30.0 NO: Thank you. Did you know particularly with YouTube, so I shared twice a week videos for social media tips for agency and I said, do you know this is where I really had to be really quick about being able to say Wunderstars, about having the new branding, but it was really good practice ’cause you know I have an editor, so I sent them all the materials, but just being able to say, “Hi. I’m Nicole. I’m a digital marketing coach, Wunderstars,” was quite funny. So no, thank you, yeah, that really made me adapt the brand really, really quickly. And the photos I have from Catherine, I now actually use them for a lot of my YouTube thumbnails because it means…

0:19:01.1 Lee: I noticed.

0:19:01.6 NO: It means I don’t have to have a selfie which is like thoughtful or all of that, I can just use one of the amazing images. And again, I continue my work with Design Box Media where they produce all my blog images or my vlog images, ’cause I really wanted to make sure that the brand stays consistent and we tap into all the goodness that they created.

0:19:19.4 Lee: That’s fantastic. And I think what I’d like to do is talk with Tom and see if he would be willing to come on the podcast to talk us through their process ’cause you’re clearly a very, very happy customer, and I’d love for them to share their process ’cause that will benefit other agency owners as well, seeing how it’s done. Off the back of listening to such a very grateful and excited client who has, in my opinion, got a phenomenal website, I really love what you’ve created here.

0:19:49.1 NO: Oh, amazing, and do you know it’s really the power of referrals because since then I have recommended the agency to a few of my contacts and they churned out another really amazing website for Basstastic. And you can see a similar approach, the energy, just a beautiful website. And I think I also reviewed them on Clutch. Do you know… Lee, have you ever put anything on Clutch? It takes a lot of time [laughter] but Design Box Media did great. They basically offered to plant some trees in return, how could I refuse? I’m so happy with their work, of course if they’re going to plant some trees, that’s great for the environment, I’m definitely going to take the time to give them a review. I’m sure Tom would love that opportunity to come on your podcast.

0:20:28.0 Lee: Yeah, now that would be fantastic. Now, I do have one more question as we come into land, and that’s your services. Obviously, you had Lollipop Social, you were offering one-to-one coaching even back then, and your target audience started to evolve, like you shared. You developed the new brand Wunderstars, has your offering changed or has it just simply been the people that you reach out to?

0:20:53.4 NO: A bit of both actually. So, one thing I did do over lockdown, because I wanted to make sure that the coaching is available to a wider audience, and not everyone is straight away able to afford one-on-one coaching. So I launched a year ago, just over a year ago, I launched a group version, it’s called the WunderTeam, and it’s usually limited to three people in a group and we do group coaching, we also have implementation sessions, so that was quite a natural progression from one-to-one coaching to also now having a group version, WunderTeam, and then people can also book just an hour consultation with me ’cause often they just need some advice on specific social media channel or on a transition they’re facing, the help with that. So yeah, it’s a bit of both. So essentially, the services are still the same, but the more people I work with, the more experience I get, like for example one of the things I’ve adapted, one of my one-on-one Wunderstars, rather than meeting me once a month, having that 90 minutes and then in-between support, he actually said to me, “Nicole you know what, I sometimes get a bit overwhelmed, can I see you twice a month?” So we just give him now twice a month, shorter sessions, and I’m right there to help him feel not get overwhelmed when a good project comes in and there’s a big plan he has to do. So yeah, your services essentially evolve as you get to work with more people, that yeah…

0:22:12.6 Lee: Well this… Oh sorry, carry on.

0:22:13.1 NO: Can I tell you a best thing? Once a month I run now a WunderBar which is basically for all of my Wunderstars and we get to go, and it’s like a social thing. We have a gin and tonic, we have a glass of wine. I love it, it’s so nice when you’re building your own community around you.

0:22:28.6 Lee: Ah lovely.

0:22:29.2 NO: And I’m sure it’s the same what you do for Agency Trailblazers. It’s nice when people help each other and there is referrals, and you also have a bit of fun while you’re doing it, so yeah, WunderBar is definitely a great invention of mine. [chuckle]

0:22:37.5 Lee: I like it. And as you could hear during the talk there, her phone is ringing off the hook ’cause she is in such high demand now. You did very…

0:22:49.0 NO: Such a…

0:22:49.8 Lee: Well talking through that. [laughter] I was like, she’s still going.

0:22:53.5 NO: Such a professional right? [laughter]

0:22:54.3 Lee: She’s still going. [laughter]

0:22:54.4 NO: So funny. Do you know throughout lockdown you train yourself, your son walks into a room you just ignore it, your husband wants to talk to you, you give him signs, I’m live. [laughter]

0:23:04.3 Lee: Well, I’m gonna leave all that in so people know this is live, raw and unedited.

0:23:07.5 NO: Absolutely.

0:23:10.4 Lee: So, let me do the classic Jackson recap. We have met you, the wonderful Nicole Osborne, and we’ve learned how you kind of understood in more detail who your target audience was. You were already offering great coaching to business owners, but then you niched down even further, recognising that with your experience in marketing you could really be a power house for agency owners, and that’s what you’ve done over the last few years is you’ve built up some fantastic relationships in our community, in the GoWP community, Admin Bar etcetera, and you’ve also evolved your brand from a Lollipop to a great statement of Wunderstars, which people can really get behind that and feel a part of. And what you’ve done is build a community, but also build a brand that reflects you the community lead, with your personality and the way you express yourself etcetera. And I think you’ve done a phenomenal job. The last lesson as well, is that you have evolved your services as well to match the new type of client you have, and also to make things just a little bit more accessible to those who maybe can’t afford that direct one-to-one coaching. And that’s been quite a journey for you, and you’re still smiling.

0:24:24.1 NO: Yes, I’m loving it. I set up a business to create flexibility, to be able to work out anywhere I want to, actually really just my mum’s garden in Hamburg, and I have achieved that. Now, I’m really excited in getting to know people like you, your community, it’s such a pleasure. It gives me a lot of joy and for me that’s really important.

0:24:40.7 Lee: Well, thank you so much for being on. What’s the best way for people to connect with you? And then we shall bid you a… I don’t know what goodbye is in German.

0:24:48.8 NO: I can teach you. So, easiest place is to check out my Wunderstars website, so wunderstars.com. On there, you’ll find a link to my YouTube channel where I share two cool vlogs every month, plus there is a really cool download with 30 ideas and content inspiration particular for digital agency owners, so I suggest you have a look at that on the home page.

0:25:09.2 Lee: That’s not one, not two, but 30.

0:25:11.9 NO: I’m sorry.

0:25:13.4 Lee: No, that’s great. I was just making it sound even better. [laughter]

0:25:15.6 NO: Oh, oh. Oh I thought…

0:25:16.8 Lee: I was…

0:25:17.3 NO: I thought you said, “Nicole, you’re giving three calls to action, that is a bit confusing.” [laughter] Yes, it’s…

0:25:24.0 Lee: But wait there’s more.

0:25:27.0 NO: 30 ideas, really good ideas. [laughter] Lee, I’m really hot now. [laughter] You’re making me laugh too much. [laughter] So glad this is not video, I’m really sweaty, apologies everyone.

0:25:39.7 Lee: I wondered what the smell was. [laughter] Anything else they should click on wunderstars.com?

0:25:44.2 NO: Not at all, [laughter] just the one side, please. [laughter]

0:25:48.2 Lee: So then the only last thing that we need to do is for you to teach me how to say goodbye in German and then we shall say goodbye.

0:25:55.2 NO: Auf wiedersehen.

0:25:58.2 Lee: I think I kind of knew that, auf wiedersehen, but I thought it was a different language.

0:26:02.8 NO: It’s my job to make you look good.

0:26:04.5 Lee: Alright, okay.

0:26:06.1 NO: Giving you an easy one. Auf wiedersehen, Lee. Danke schön.

0:26:08.0 Lee: Auf wiedersehen, Nicole. Danke schön.

0:26:10.2 NO: Cheers.

0:26:10.9 Lee: Cheerio, thank you. Bye.

0:26:13.0 NO: Auf wiedersehen.